To think no wonder MPs are scared to speak on Gender when this happens?

[bambambini]

I follow Jess Phillips on Twitter, she is a big Trans ally and is hoping to pass laws that make things easier for Transfolk - but if an ally gets this response on Twitter - no wonder others are scared to speak out.

mobile.twitter.com/jessphillips/status/931093574011191296

mobile.twitter.com/jessphillips/status/931093574011191296

I'm hoping the pile on will help open her and other people's eyes as to how aggressive this movement is.

So the movement is 'Trans women are women.' I've seen quite a few people sharing that on my TL. I dare not engage in it as it will end in me blowing up my laptop and perhaps my brain for equal measure.

Monotonously repeating a bare assertion doesn’t make it true.

Also saying trans women are women fails to engage with the central point of if and when it is acceptable to treat someone with a penis differently to someone without a penis when it comes to sex segregation. I like to think no one is enough of a misogynist to date such a distinction can never be made but to be honest it seems I’m clearly wrong.

Young peoples author Juno Dawson is having their say.

Appalling

I love how men are now telling us what a woman is. And if we don't like it we can just STFU.

I have no issue with trans people and would fight for them not to be discriminated against but NOT by erasing my rights. This seems to be a very vocal minority and people are just falling over themselves to accommodate all sorts of ridiculousness and often dangerous ideas just not to be seen as a bigot

I love how men are now telling us what a woman is.

They have a very strong core group of young, millennial, 'modern' women also fighting their corner. Tis no longer the preserve of men (or individuals with penises).

just not to be seen as a bigot

And indeed not to be seen as 'behind the times'. My work necessitates that I follow quite a lot of people on SM - some I agree with and some I don't. I advocate that people should be entitled to their opinions. But this movement is insidious.

As I said, I refuse to be drawn as invariably I will be in the firing line. Didn't you know it's 2017 and prejudice has no place in our society!? In fact those poor trans women are apparently among the last minority group in society which are fair game! Right, that's why anyone I've seen espouse opposing views has been threatened!

One thing I will say; I am not 'cis' anything. I happen to be a woman. You can call yourself what you like but 'cis' is not a thing.

It's ridiculous.

You can identify as a Garden Gnome for all I care. But if you have a penis you use mens facilities and if you have a vagina you use womens.

If you truly feel you were born in the wrong body and should be a woman and care to remove that penis, feel free to use women's facilities after that.

I find the "cis" thing offensive.

I also find this movement shouts loudly about not assuming people's personal pro nouns etc, which I'm happy enough to do out of respect for people but how come it's ok to offend me by calling me a "cis" woman. I'm not a "cis woman" I am a woman.

I find the term "cis" offensive but apparently, I don't matter and offending me doesn't matter. So all "women "are equal but some (trans) women are more equal than others it appears.

The broken record #nodebate thing is chilling. It proves there is no substance to the argument and that they can't afford to engage but silencing tactics are very worrying. As is denial of facts with the assertions on that thread like 'transwomen are biologically female'. I don't know how people can convince themselves that they actually believe this stuff.

I can understand TW fighting their corner - it’s personal to them, whethet i agree or not with every demand they want. I can’t understand the number of young, lefty, educated, mostly white men i see wading in on this. I’ve seen them having group talks on Twitter - all men telling women what a woman is and who should have access to female areas etc - calling women terfs snd transphobes. The same men solemnly sad face (and no doubt weep) at what Weinstein inflicted on countless women, they retweet women’s #metoo experiences. My mind boggles.

I read the 'transwomen are biologically female' line and was just

I mean no....no they are not. If someone digs that skeleton up in 1,000 years they will identify it as male. If that person is taken unconscious into A and E the doctors will identify them as male. Because they biologically are, not matter how they identify or what they choose to wear the biology is pretty bloody clear.

I don't understand why this movement wants to be so regressive. Surely it would just be better to say men can wear dresses and call themselves Susan should they wish and there's nothing wrong with that instead of "If a man wears a dress and calls himself Susan he is biologically female" which is just bonkers. Live how you like, identify how you like but stop trying to erase women whilst at the same time asserting that you are one.

You can identify as a Garden Gnome for all I care. But if you have a penis you use mens facilities and if you have a vagina you use womens.
This with bells on!

I read the 'transwomen are biologically female' line and was just
I mean no....no they are not.
This, with more bells on. They are psychologically female, not biologically female.

I don't understand why we can't debate this rationally. Feel very sorry for Jess Phillips.

catgirl I whole-heartedly agree. If you want to wear a dress and make-up then by all means do so. Call yourself Susan or Dolly Parton if you are so inclined. But stop bloody re-writing the basic tenets of biology.

I had some dealings with a gov department not too long ago and the mental gymnastics we had to go through to make sure that we weren't being 'discriminative' or exclusionary wrt a form asking people about their sex and gender floored me. The entire point of that meeting wasn't at all about sex or gender. But we spent a good few hours going back and forth about the best way to word it. We settled on 'sex' then 'do you currently identify as the same sex you were at birth' we had to delete the 'assigned to at birth' and include 'currently' (as it might change tomorrow morning). It was a fucking nightmare.

All that to avoid a person potentially with a moustache and a penis in a dress from running to the Daily Mail complaining about a bigoted government department. The world has officially gone crazy!

If Jess Phillips is being attacked, called a Terf and transphobe when she has worked to help trans rights (similar with Laci Green and Chimamanda Idiche) - then nothing but 110% agreement and support will ever be enough for the more extreme, demanding TRansactivists. It’s clear who wants to be running the show and having the last word when it comes to any women’s/girls issues at all.

A man with a penis wearing a frock, wig and make up is not and never will be a woman, nor does he know what it feels like to be a woman.

I actually now don't see 'Terf' as an offensive term anymore. I'm happy to subscribe to the term. I have a separate issue with feminism - but in so far as terf-ism; count me in

What stands out on that thread is just how many of the responses are young women. There are more of them replying than transwomen it seems. The mind boggles. I can understand them being passionate about fighting bigotry but how can they be so blinkered. They're essentially betraying themselves. It has horrified me.

To be fair, I can remember when I was a young studenty type. I was very passionate about things. Critical thinking was only for lectures and essays. Everything was black and white. And old people (bless them) just didn't understand.

I have (thankfully) grown up a lot since then, but I can understand what so many young people are passionately for when it is being framed as an anti-establishment,civil rights issue.

•To be fair, I can remember when I was a young studenty type. I was very passionate about things. Critical thinking was only for lectures and essays. Everything was black and white. And old people (bless them) just didn't understand.

I have (thankfully) grown up a lot since then, but I can understand what so many young people are passionately for when it is being framed as an anti-establishment,civil rights issue.*

Yes to all of this - my views have changed as i’ve aged - and still changing. I try to remember when dealing with obviously very young people on likes of twitter and try and avoid.

I have every sympathy for those who genuinely feel that they have been born into the wrong body. Body dysmorphia must be debilitating. However, these people are few and not related to those who wish to identify as gender fluid/agender/ or anything else involving gender. It makes a mockery of the former. Those of us who bring up our children to ignore gender and treat themselves and others as equals, do not need those who obsess about gender, throwing their specialness in our faces by jumping on the trans bandwagon and demanding special treatment. I suppose I just wanted to say that if you really want to identify as the opposite sex, then actually make genuine attempts to do so however when someone brings the word gender into the equation they can't expect the same understanding and respect. And I am never ever going to refer to myself or anyone as cis.

To be fair, I can remember when I was a young studenty type. I was very passionate about things.

Yes I guess I can understand it if I really stop and think. Their hearts are in the right place. It's just they're airing these views on twitter which is also home to so many of the threats being made by older men concerning this issue. Surely they've come across them. It makes me wince to see them so readily accuse other women of being bigots and transphobic. Most feminists really aren't transphobic at all bit it shuts down the conversation.

Unfortunately it feels like the wheel is spinning in motion too fast for it to be stopped and I don’t know where this movement is going to end for girl’s and women’s issues. It’s terrifying really.

And as i said earlier this is how some turn on those who are allies and fighting for them.