To give 16 year old ultimatum- shape up or leave?

[DamnMyFrizzyHair]

DS (16) left school in June and has done NOTHING since - he's basically been sat on his arse for almost 6 months, going to bed at 4am, getting up mid afternoon and going out with his mates until gone midnight.

He refused to go to college, half arsed attempt to get an apprentiship but failed and then eventually landed a job in McDonald's ... however he pissed about with that for weeks afterwards making excuses about why he couldn't start until he eventually gets a proper start date two weeks ago and goes and breaks his hand punching a wall over a disagreement about his girlfriend. Therefore on his first day, he had to tell the manager he couldn't work due to broken hand. I don't even know if he still has the job as he won't discuss it.

Lately he hasn't even been coming home, he goes out and stays out, often for a couple of days at a time.

I've just come back off holiday and he's left the house in a shit hole and has blatantly used it as a hotel for his mates.

I'm at the end of my patience with him. He's disrespectful and not nice to be around. Causes so much tension in the house and we don't even know where he is half the time or whether he's coming back or not. Last night DH waited up until 1.30am for him to come home (not his dad, his dad is a useless sack of shit) only for DS1 to pass the message on that he'd just text him to say he wasn't coming back.

AIBU to tell him he needs to find somewhere else to live if he can't live by normal family rules and expectations?

Don’t give him money. At all. Especially if he’s smoking dope and drinking. I’ve been where you are. It’s exhausting and frustrating. Mine is slowly starting to turn, too slow for my liking. However, he knows he won’t get a red cent from us anymore, has made him get a job (though he’s bouncing from crap job to job), he knows that’s the way forward.

It sounds to me as though he's directionless and depressed. He needs love and help, not harsh words and being made homeless.

I had a relative just as you describe and actually his self esteem was very low . In the end he got involved with the Princes Trust and it turned his life around .

I'm guessing that OP & her DS have been deluged with flyers from council which her DS turns nose up at. There were tonnes of NVQ & skills improvement courses on offer, most about 5 months, with functional skills and mechanics etc. We seemed to have constant mailshots.

Go to Princes Trust website. If not now, maybe in future.... How PT programme was for DS:

12 week programme.
meet up almost daily in the week somewhere (fire station for us) with other youths about 10am.
they get a lift to a meeting room & have group discussion and exercises -- it's not a "put you on the spot experience." Much more relaxed than that.
They drink copious cups of tea & eat huge quantities of biscuits.
There were many smoking breaks.
DS said he was almost the only one there whose parents weren't divorced.
The participants were age 16-25.
Most were floundering, trying to decide what to do with their lives.
They talk about their job prospects & get advice what they do to improve their cvs, or other training opportunities they could pursue.
1 or 2 weeks of work experience (PT staff help arrange)
They did a fundraising activity (think it was just a sponsored hike, but the participants chose what to do, not imposed on them)
had a 4 day long residential (with agenda set by participants)
and did a lot of planning for an event to help someone... like painting & repair a building for a week, as a group achievement (they planned what to do)
Dropped back at meeting point about 3pm every day, and can go home after that.

DS has a really low tolerance for "stupid pointless" but he lasted the whole course & even got his first proper paid job b/c of it.

Worth a phone call.

OP, who was at home whilst you went on holiday? I have a 17yr old DS and whilst he is not a baby I can't imagine going on holiday and not including him in my/our plans if he wanted to come (unless maybe it's a weekend break that DH and I were going on). Holidays and fun times extend to both our DCs and will do for as long as they want to.

I'm wondering if this is the result of him feeling left out and not wanted.

SuburbanRhonda
Unless he has somewhere safe and permanent to live, please don’t throw him out. It happened to a friend if DS, and it didn’t end well

Whereas I know of a 16 year old and a 17 year old who were kicked out of their family's home, and it was the shock and kick up the backside they needed. One went to live with the other parent, made their life hell and was then faced with the reality of two parents who couldn't bear to be around him, and the prospect of having nowhere to live, so changed his attitude, and the other one moved out, got a job and rented a room.

I would sit down with your son OP and make things crystal clear. What he is doing, what his options are, what you expect if he is to live under your roof, and you ask him (not tell him) if he agrees to the terms, and the consequences of not meeting them, or not.

If he says no, he's out. If he says yes, he stays. If he says yes and then breaches them, he's out with his own full knowledge and expectation firmly in place.

My folks went through this with my now 33 year old brother. Similiar situation as in mum & step dad but from very early on, so no dramatic changes. They simply laid down the law & told him what they expected; he was home by a set time, otherwise he didn't get in (took his key away). He didn't work so to earn his keep he had set jobs round the house - if he didn't do them, he lost things such as his phone, use of the wifi or the TV. Very basic things but they were all things he enjoyed. They rationed his tea bags, because he would sit on his arse all say drinking cup after cup & just expecting my folks to buy them.

Worked for a while, then he went & got himself an apprenticeship so they changed the rules a bit - he paid board, could have a key back as long as he kept in touch & told them if he was staying out overnight etc.

He did eventually leave, but I think it was a case of jump before you're pushed because they kept going round full circle. We were abroad too, but it gave him the kick up the arse he needed. Got a decent job, steady girlfriend & even stayed there when we moved! Sometimes you can try everything, and it takes a big ole shock to the system to wake somebody up

I absolutely feel for you - I have 2 teenage boys and honestly wouldn't know what to do in that situation except for feel stressed to hell. I can understand you wanting to kick him out because I would want to as well, but if he smokes weed and drinks already then that may accelerate his bad habits and then he'll be really stuck. I used to be made to go to the job centre at his age - woken up at 8am and told to get out and look for a job by 9am. If he doesn't have money, how is he drinking and smoking pot?

This sounds very hard for you OP. Do you have other children at home? Is there anyone in his life that he respects the opinion of, and might listen to? He sounds directionless, and needs a framework for day-to-day living, so he can find a goal and work towards it. He does need some intervention to prevent the slide into addiction.

A very experienced prison officer once said that in his experience the love of a decent young woman would to more that the criminal justice system in getting young men to go straight. We had a similar situation years ago, driving thought the night to pick up a son from a police sergeant who had the sense not to deem him sober till we arrived. Twenty plus years on and I cannot say how proud we are of him.

I was that teenager. Please don't kick him out. He needs help. He had no idea what he should do and no real passions. He needs love and help. It might take a lot of tries or a while to get him on track. Please be realistic, he probably won't become a doctor. Just help him to find a passion and a purpose. It doesn't have to be fancy. Try to get him to think what he wants to tell his friends in a few years time. Does he want to tell them about being a crane machinist (building a flat listening to music could appeal) or an illustrator or a metalsmith? Try to help him find something cool. He probably doesn't want to spend his life living with his parents so try to help him plan a future.

If he is anything like I was shouting at him will automatically make him dismiss what you are saying. So please don't shout if you have something important to say. Shouting about dirty dishes is OK.

My DH is still friends with a guy who was like us who was kicked out at 16. He is a stoned drunk who is jobless, loveless, lives in a shitty flat and counts pennies to buy bread. He is a drug addict who will tell any and all to never touch drugs or you will end up like him. He is miserable but can't get out of it. It is so so sad.

If you have ever loved your son then help or get help. Of course it is difficult for you and you might think about getting a coach for yourself.

Anyway, I later got kicked out at 18. Made a mess. Met a guy who helped me get back on track. He was the epitome of cool but also thought that having a career was cool. I now have a job, don't drink or smoke and have money in the bank. It was a long and difficult road though and I wish that I had had more love and help. They gave all that love and help to my brother who already had a wife and house and a good job (so gave him a car while I was walking with a hole in my shoe to my low payed job with the ceiling in the toilet coming down) and countless other examples. My brother however is now an entitled shit (I love him dearly but he is!) and a terrible father.

Please help your son.

Such a difficult situation but fleurjasmine’s compassionate advice is spot on.
Your son is rudderless at the moment and just needs that one thing that will trigger a positive change. It could be a good relationship with a girlfriend or the Princes Trust programmes sound useful. Just try and hold on OP- are there any other positive male role models in your life who could do informal mentoring for him???

Whereas I know of a 16 year old and a 17 year old who were kicked out of their family's home, and it was the shock and kick up the backside they needed. One went to live with the other parent, made their life hell and was then faced with the reality of two parents who couldn't bear to be around him, and the prospect of having nowhere to live, so changed his attitude, and the other one moved out, got a job and rented a room.

The fact that it sometimes works doesn't not negate the fact that very often throwing a 16 year old out doesn't end well. It's a big risk.

Very, very difficult situation. A friend of mine is going through similar with her DS. I’m really sort OP as I’ve witnessed how much of a toll this takes on you.

Kicking him out isn’t the answer, as op said, he’ll end up sofa surfing and his behaviour will spiral downwards. And you’ll be worrying yourself sick as you won’t know where he is or whether he’s safe.

Let him know he’s loved and let him know help and support is there if you want it. Other than that I think all you can do is try and ignore as much of it as possible and focus on yourself and finding some coping strategies to help you keep your strength.

If you put him out where will he end up?

Maverick66
If you put him out where will he end up?

Renting a room and working at McDonald's (I use that as he has experience) or finding other employment. Like millions of other young men have done for generations.

You've just described me as a teenager. I was terrible and wish someone had kicked me up the arse. I deeply regret how I behaved back then but at the time I was so sure I was right and people should get off my back.

I would threaten him as you've said - shape up or get out. Hopefully that's enough but be prepared to follow through because if you on't he'll be even worse!

I really feel for you OP, I was a youth worker and met so many young men like your son
Sadly youth work provision has been cut to the bone.
We all need to fight against the austerity imposed on this country as it’s children like your son who miss out on the opportunity to make changes with the support of people outside their family.
This time af transition to the adult works is so difficult in our post industrial society
Op just keep loving him but don’t pander to him xx
Fleurjasmine I love your writing
Do you have a blog?

Unlikely, FlowerPot

For one thing, many landlords just won't rent to under-18s, even in a house share. This is why the 16/17 age range is so vulnerable as children's services won't touch them, but neither will adults.

If he does get a room, it's still going to be probably around £400 a month. Obviously that's dependent on area.

I worked in McDonald's as a 17 year old. (It was horrendous but I digress.) It can be tricky getting the hours you need, as McDonald's are overwhelmingly 24 hours now. Under 18s can't do these hours so McD's may only have a handful of shifts for him. He's still protected by law as a child and so many jobs are closed to him: many more come with strings attached. It's £4 an hour minimum wage for a 16 year old - not a lot. So even if he does 40 hours a week, he earns £160 a week - £640 a month - and has to pay rent from that?

He's not going to see the error of his ways and return like the prodigal son. When I worked at McD's, I got spoken to like shit by staff and clients alike. Not all of course but a fair few. I actually walked out, although what actually happened was I left crying one day when I committed some heinous crime like giving someone chicken nuggets instead of a chicken sandwich and the manager started screaming at me and I burst into tears and ran out because I couldn't really think of anything else to do! (There was this shocked silence after me from everyone in the restaurant - probably not my finest moment but in fairness my mum had died a couple of months before and I was a tad fragile!) I imagine this boy would probably punch a wall and walk out.

People saying 'he MUST, you NEED to', are missing the point. I think anyone with a wayward teen needs to seriously think about what the objectives are. In extreme cases like this, the objectives are to keep everyone sane, alive and hopefully without permanent damage in the years to come.

As an aside, people have listed times when they/someone they know were forced into early independence. As a rule, it's not a good thing however 'well' people appeared to cope at the time. In some ways, it can be likened to anything - to have independence, you need maturity, but maturity is in ongoing process and cannot be pinpointed to a particular moment. Much like a karate master gaining his black belt - he's moved through the stages and by the time he can kill someone he has the self restraint not to. Shoving an already struggling teen into this sort of situation doesn't kick them up the backside, it just means that whole colour run of emotion: sadness and pain and rejection and low self esteem and uncertainty and frustration and lacking a purpose and lacking a place - all come steaming out as anger. And anger is dangerous in the immature.

Haha no, no blog - I don't have sufficient staying power to update it!

He is a chid so kicking him out is basically neglect.

He has problems but what have you done so far to help him? There's numerous things out there you could have used.

Maybe he feels not part of the family, you going away and leaving him at home whilst still a child says a lot.

Don't be too hard on the OP. I don't get the impression she was seriously considering kicking him out. I think she is very worried, exasperated and anxious and is essentially asking 'what the hell can I do?'

The main thing is to keep loving him. That sounds so easy but it's not always when you have a surly, rude, angry, smelly lout in your house! Put a really cute baby picture of him by your bed and remember his lovely ways and remember he is still there, somewhere.

No, I wouldn’t kick him out.

He sounds a deeply troubled boy who could do with some counselling/anger management. Perhaps once you get to the root of the problem, may be his dad leaving and not having a positive impact on his life? He then turns to smoking drugs/drinking to (which he probably started at a young age) to try and minimise the hurt and is now addicted.

He needs some professional help and you will need to be strict with him, not giving him money for drink and drugs.

I don’t understand your comment about can’t wait until he gets to 18?

I agree that he needs support and advice. This could be in various ways. Visiting a careers advisor or volunteering or work shadowing in something which genuinely interests him. A trip to the GP to rule out mental health difficulties. Encouraging sports and outdoor exercise to boost the endorphins and confidence. I don’t think kicking him out is the answer.

i wouldnt kick him out, but then again i wouldnt leave my 16 year old at home alone while i went on holiday either