To give 16 year old ultimatum- shape up or leave?

[DamnMyFrizzyHair]

DS (16) left school in June and has done NOTHING since - he's basically been sat on his arse for almost 6 months, going to bed at 4am, getting up mid afternoon and going out with his mates until gone midnight.

He refused to go to college, half arsed attempt to get an apprentiship but failed and then eventually landed a job in McDonald's ... however he pissed about with that for weeks afterwards making excuses about why he couldn't start until he eventually gets a proper start date two weeks ago and goes and breaks his hand punching a wall over a disagreement about his girlfriend. Therefore on his first day, he had to tell the manager he couldn't work due to broken hand. I don't even know if he still has the job as he won't discuss it.

Lately he hasn't even been coming home, he goes out and stays out, often for a couple of days at a time.

I've just come back off holiday and he's left the house in a shit hole and has blatantly used it as a hotel for his mates.

I'm at the end of my patience with him. He's disrespectful and not nice to be around. Causes so much tension in the house and we don't even know where he is half the time or whether he's coming back or not. Last night DH waited up until 1.30am for him to come home (not his dad, his dad is a useless sack of shit) only for DS1 to pass the message on that he'd just text him to say he wasn't coming back.

AIBU to tell him he needs to find somewhere else to live if he can't live by normal family rules and expectations?

So where is he getting his money from, if you aren't giving him any? A boy with no GCSEs, no job and no income is drinking and taking drugs - how is he affording that?

I agree that given he's only 16 (and let's face it, a lot of us were dickheads at that age), you should try interim measures before you chuck him out. But I would do as suggested above - no more money, don't pay for his phone, cut off the wifi, etc. And tell him that either he goes to college and resits his GCSEs, or he gets an apprenticeship, or he gets a job - and that those are your conditions for him remaining in your house. Give him a reasonable time frame (until the new year, say), and then stick to your guns. You're feeling powerless because it sounds like you're just nagging him at the moment. So don't nag, sit him down, with your DH present to back you up, and tell him that this nonsense stops right now, that you aren't a hotel, and that he either pays his way, gets back to school and actually applies himself to getting some qualifications, or he gets out. And mean it.

'Dregs of humanity' - Such a horrible phrase. There are people living horrible, pitiful lives but however they got there, they are not rubbish. They are still people.

Have you posted about him before? Do you have an older son?

You have my sympathy, your DS sounds like a real pita at the moment. My DB was very much like this at that age and he does have MH problems, so like one PP I do think this is something you should consider, especially with him smoking dope. (Not necessarily the case obviously.)

I broadly agree with Fleur. I'd be supportive but not give him money. I wouldn't cut off the WiFi as it's such a vital part of keeping in touch with the world, jobs and opportunities, but I'd set rigours filters for porn, violence and gambling.

I agree, it's a horrible word, charleston

'dregs', in this instance, was used as an adjective to describe 'people at the bottom.' Mostly, the cause of being at the bottom is an addiction, yet even that isn't the full story as plenty of people were there long before an addiction took hold.

So we have people who live on the fringes. People who sleep most of the day and come alive at night. People who are bizarrely connected through their addictions and don't support one another, in fact they drag one another down. It's a seedy and murky underworld and it's one that's hard to describe through text alone, even though generally I'm fairly good at writing.

It's dimly lit stone stairs of blocks of flats, graffiti, badly decorated shared houses filled with people, old horror videos from the 1980s and petty crime. It's the constant presence of alcohol and class C drugs - even first thing in the morning! (If they're up!) It's a small world: many of the inhabitants in it won't ever emerge beyond a mile or so of their immediate surroundings, but it's also a very transient one where people disappear at a moments notice: dead, prison, just moved on - no one knows. No one really cares. Violence is part of life. Drugs fuel volatile responses. Women often work as prostitutes and that brings its own nasty underbelly of violence.

It might be unpalatable to read about. But disliking what we call it doesn't change the fact it exists and often the real free fall into that world happens when familial relations break down - which is one reason why care leavers are so vulnerable.

That which it is, it is. I couldn't send my child into that world.

Fleur, I agree with you, I've seen that world myself and I couldn't do it to him. I just wish there was somewhere safe for him to go, like supported living or something - he's 17 in Feb. How awful that I'm counting the days until he's 18 and can get help from somewhere else. I've been doing this on my own since he was 4. I really am tired now.

On another unconnected note, are you a writer fleur? If not, you should be.

Love Fleur's advice, she sounds very wise.

i'm not sure that he would get much help at 18 though OP. They're then considered to be an adult and left to get on with it as far as the state/council are concerned.

It all sounds extremely difficult. However, I wouldn't kick him out at 16.

I left home at 16 I was nothing like your son. I had To due to abusive parents. It’s not easy but it can be done. How long has he been having issues with anger and disrespect? The problem now trying to get help for your 16yr old is going to be hard as he will need to want to help himself. I’m sorry you are going through this I have no advice really. I just wanted to say that if he wanted to make it work he could but he could also end up homeless drug dependant and alone. Only you and him will truly know what he is capable of achieving.

Have you suggested the military as an option for him? Maybe having the rules and discipline would do wonders for him.

I wish I was!

Don't feel guilty or feel any sense of culpability here.

The day will come when living with parents will be inappropriate and he will have to leave. I hate to remove the faint glimmer of hope, but I don't think anything will be magically transformed on him hitting 18.

What you will probably notice is a gradual winding down of the more combative sort of behaviour. I'll probably get jumped on here and I hope not, but in my experience, often what really sorts out these 'angry young men' is a positive and loving relationship - what is his girlfriend like?

If there is anything that might help him off the weed, I would say that's probably the most damaging thing, but there might not be and if not, what can you do? Not much. It is largely about gritting your teeth, waiting it out, and preserving your own sanity in the interim.

If he stays in the house, and I'd probably let him stay, I'd want to change these things:

Nobody waits up for him if he's out late. Friend resorted to telling her teens they had to be back before 11pm or not come back until 6am... they were waking her up crashing in drunk at 2am type times.

Continue to give no money to him.

He can't stay there alone when you go on holidays. He obviously has some other sofas he can surf on already.

I'd start a row every time he's verbally rude. There's no excuse for it. He can be civil.

A lot of this situation is how you're reacting. You do have control over your response. How would kicking him out make you worry less about where he is?

He's a good candidate for The Princes Trust, btw (my NEET DS did it). If they operate in your area, I have a feeling they cut back dramatically on spaces, though.

He's your son. If you kick him out he will have NO chance of sorting himself out.

Parents rise to the challenge, he sounds difficult for sure but you need to help him.

Kick him out of bed....stop any money....MAKE him get a job.

Do you think that perhaps he is overwhelmed after leaving school? Up to this point your life is mapped out for you, but once you leave school its like well what do you want to do?
That can lead some people into doing nothing purely because they don't know what it is they want to do.

Could you set up a meeting with a careers adviser for him?
Have you looked at national citizens service? It would at least give him something to do and get you a break.
Or how about the army he could join up then have a huge range of areas he could specialise in and the money is good for a 16 year old

I imagine its so hard for you and is a situation i can easily see happening with at least one of mine good luck.

I agree with Fleur too. At 16-17 years I knew a few people who were similar to your DS and punishments from parents and/or throwing them out backfired spectacularly. He is too old for punishments and to me, some people's suggestions seem incredibly naive e.g. changing wifi password or locking him out will just make him angry and stay out the vast majority of the time and/or sofa surf.

I would contact organisations such as NEET for advice and try to support him in other ways if possible. Hopefully, this is just a phase and that he will grow out of it.

www.ncsyes.co.uk/
national citizens service

I have little to offer but sympathy OP. I have worked with teens in a pastoral capacity for many years and I am very familiar with the coflict and exhaustion which comes with the territory.

I think fleur’s posts sum up exactly my experience where you people are cut off. Believe me there have been times where I have understood 100% why the parents have responded the way they have but the outcome is never good for the young person unless there is a supportive family friend or relation who is willing to step in for a while.

The response you get might vary but it could be worth contacting social work primarily as they could point you in the direction of local organisations who could provide you and your son some help.

As he has disengaged with School and has other issues, we would need to have referred him to a 16+ keyworker who would be quite dogged in pursuing some engagement with your son. Are you aware if School did this? Could they have the details of an agency who could help.

No words of advice, but huge empathy as I've been there with DS2.

Been to hell and back beginning with behaviour you describe.
Ride it out and eventuallyhe'll discover what he wants to do and settle down. Really proud of our upstanding ds2 now.

I don't want to derail the thread and I take on board that the way you have used the phrase is not what it means to me fleurjasmine. To me dregs in this context is not synonymous with bottom. It is more like leftovers.

What fleur says

I wouldn't kick him out. When I was around that age and a little shit, my parents took away my key so if I wasn't back by a civilised time I'd be sleeping in the porch. (They also had to tie down the knocker and disable the doorbell otherwise I would keep them up all night ) And it meant I couldn't bring people round when they weren't there. If I were you, I wouldn't pander to his behaviour. The more you shout at him and get on his case, I think the worse it will get. When my parents finally let me get on with it and ignored me, that's when I sorted my shit out. If he really has no income, he will soon need to get a job because his friends will soon get sick a freeloader hanging around.

Good luck

I am having similar issues with my teen son op. Bad GCSE results , playing at finding an apprenticeship , vile attitude at times...turned down a job because it wasn't "right for him". We've stopped giving him cash, limited Wi-Fi etc but it just drives him to his dad's house where he is given freedom to drink energy drinks and play on a console all day.

There are no easy answers unfortunately. Our approach is a long-term one. We're welcoming him home when he's not at his dad's. Offer him a meal , a listening ear , help with his cv and job applications. We still withold cash and limit Wi-Fi to job searching hours but we're doing our best to be patient and guide him back onto the correct path. The alternative is him staying with his layabout dad permanently and becoming more like him as the years pass.

At the end of the day op he's your son , you love him , and you want good things for him. Tell him this, then tell him that you'll not be giving him cash to go out or unlimited Wi-Fi. He'll have to earn the Wi-Fi by applying for x amount of jobs per week etc.

It's not easy and I wish you good luck.

"I split with his dad when he was 4 years old but he's always been difficult. He's aggressive and violent, foul mouthed, smokes dope and drinks alcohol. "

Has he had contact with any services previously? Did you get anger management, phone the Police etc?

When you say you've "seen that world" is it in your past/family members?

That too charleston, although not ones you would like to eat!

The point isn't that the word has unpleasant connotations - it does - but that's because it's an unpleasant world out there.

My heart goes out to the homeless, the addicts, the prostitutes, the petty criminals to fuel said addiction, the mentally ill and the prisoners. Many are all of the above. I am a compassionate person and it's horrible to see.

But the uncomfortable truth is that once you are engulfed within that world, it's extremely hard to get out of. (I know some do, and they have my utmost respect. One of the most inspiring people I know of was a man who along with his partner of the time was using heroin: she turned to prostitution, he to crime. They had a DD, who spent her childhood in and out of care until she was ten and the mum sadly died of s drug overdose. He stepped right up, stopped the drugs, became a parent and worked with drug addicts. Absolute respect for that man!)

But he is an exception. And he would be the first to tell you that even though his story has a sort-of-happy-ending, it still has left its scars in a thousand ways.

In other words, my 'dregs' was said with compassion but also with realism. It's a dirty world out there. This is what I wish they'd show on school PSHE programmes. It's not cool or fun, it's dirty, grimy and unpleasant.

But I digress.

I wish the OP and her son the best.

Why doesn’t he want to do anything with his life though? Do you think he may be secretly depressed? Are his friends doing the same thing?

I don’t think it’s normal for a 16yo that has finished school to not be in education or work, unless they have another plan of action. Even if he failed his GCSEs, he can do a BTEC or an apprenticeship alongside resitting GCSE maths and English. A BTEC in vocational subjects too, not necessarily academic if that’s not his thing

Is he still job searching? Is this a temporary gap year sort of situation? It just sounds like he’s ‘stuck’ and needs a bit of support