To be put off a school by it's uniform?

[SnugglyButterflySnuggler]

I know I probably am UR.

DD is 3.4 and we're applying for schools for her. Ready for her to start next September. She has a few SN so even though technically we have a choice (she has an EHCP) we actually don't as there's only 2 primaries schools (out of 6) in our town that are willing to take her with her specific issues.

The closest school to us that would take herI hate the uniform. It's a state school but they insist on blazers from the January of reception year all the way through to year 6. No pinafores or trousers for girls, skirts only. No shorts for boys only trousers. No polo shirts for anything other than PE, full button up shirts and ties. It just seems so formal for such young children. It's an oversubscribed school so it looks like the parents don't agree. I just can't imagine trying to battle DD into a shirt and tie everyday. The website says children are only permitted to remove blazers if a teacher says they can, even the local high school isn't that strict! (HS has blazers but they don't have to be worn at all after Easter and up until then the individual child is allowed to choose when they take it off) This is actually our closest school even if DD didn't have SN, so this is likely were we'll be allocated.

So AIBU to be put off a school by it's uniform, and is there anything I can about it? I am going to put the other school down as first choice, but I don't think we'll get it as we're just outside of it's catchment for the last 3 years and SN in catchment come above SN out of catchment for that school

I used to work at a school with a similar uniform policy it was a great school but it took me ages to get my ks1 kids changed for pe! I just wanted to add that if you do send her there m&s do an easy dressing range of uniform ie shirts that look like button through but actually have Velcro and skirts and trousers that look like they have buttons but have elastic instead. They were developed with the national autistic society so are free of itchy labels etc too. I was so impressed by the ones I was at work last year that I brought them for my nursery age dc.

FlowerPot,

I'm, genuinely surprised by your attitude, given that the OP's child has SEN and a very real reason why the uniform would need to be adapted for her? If, for example, a child with an incomplete or amputated limb attended the school, I would expect that the uniform would and should be adapted. A child with SEN that includes sensory issues should have the same allowance and the same expectation of reasonable adaptation for their needs (e.g. softer shirt material).

Uniforms of a very formal type are often used as covert social selection - they send out the message that 'this school is 'not for the likes of you' - and the higher cost relative to the much more normal polo short and sweatshirt will be an absolutely deliberate barrier to put off certain applicants.

If I had to send a child to such a school - and OP has relatively little choice, though with an EHCP naming the other school i do think she would have a good chance, as the school is unlikely to be FILLED through SEN children with an EHCP naming the school who art also in catchment, the only category above hers - I would fight the uniform rules. Not for my own children, but because such a deliberate choice to be so excluding is both morally wrong and probably against the legal guidelines on school uniform.

I don't know exactly what your daughters additional needs are but my son who has ASD would not cope with that uniform if they are strict. His previous school which was mainstream had ties and children were meant to wear proper shirts but no one made a fuss about his refusal to wear a tie or my decision to put him in a polo shirt so he had some chance of independently getting himself ready for school in the morning (he still struggles a lot). All for having standards but that all sounds a bit much.

I wouldn't rule the school out but I would approach them to ask if there would be any flexibility for a child with sensory issues who has a EHCP.

YANBU in the least. As many PP have said, a rigid attitude towards uniform suggests potential problems for DC with SN. And a fussy, very formal uniform generally indicates a school with problems, not 'high standards'. If it's a recent change, then the school has been struggling and some dickhead's been brought in to impose 'discipline' by getting rid of the poor parents and the DC with SN: set up a load of ridiculous petty rules and throw out everyone who doesn't comply...

I'll ignore your first few posts - I know from frist hand that YANBU.

Both of my boys have SN - ASD. DS1 is now at a special school with no uniform so can wear comfy joggers and jersey tops with walking shoes or trainers, every day. In contrast to primary school which had a simple uniform, but he refused to wear a sweatshirt - he ended up in an oversized school fleece, in the winter. A blazer would have been a no go. DS2 survived that uniform, but we had to ditch the logoed sweatshirts after he took against the log and started insisting on wearing them back to front and swap from the typical synthetic school trousers to soft cotton joggers because he found them uncomfortable and started walking around with them undone! Late in year 6, he took against black school shoes. He's now wearing blue trainers to school.

So yeah, school uniform can be a real nightmare for kids with sensory issues, coordination difficulties or rigid and ritualised behaviours.

support the school 100% if you send your child there

I don't know of anyone who would agree with absolutely everything their child's school does... Seriously, if that's the criteria than there would be no school for my dd

An EHCP would put you above LAC/fostered.

Well - LAC/FLAC is an over subscription criterion and it is always the top one. EHCP is a separate consideration not connected to over subscription. If the school is named on the EHCP then the school has to take the child, regardless of whether they had a place. Even if they had a full class of 30 LAC/FLAC they would still have to take the EHCP child.

Bit extreme!!

My school is skirts/pinafore/ trousers for girls and shorts/trousers for boys

Summer dresses in the summer for girls ( not compulsory)

Polo shirts for all or shirts

Easier for parents, and the children being comfortable.

Even though I do moan that the school colour isn't any that are sold in local supermarkets! So we have to buy the school jumpers

Uniforms of a very formal type are often used as covert social selection - they send out the message that 'this school is 'not for the likes of you' - and the higher cost relative to the much more normal polo short and sweatshirt will be an absolutely deliberate barrier to put off certain applicants.

Absolutely. 100%

I can find any number of reasons within this Government document that the school's uniform policy could and should be challenged, not least because if it cannot be adapted to meet religious or disability needs it is clearly discriminatory.

I can quite understand that the OP, as the school clearly intends that she and others with SEN children do (and parents from deprived backgrounds do too), gives the school a wide berth and applies elsewhere. however, if she does apply to this school then she has every right to expect the school to adapt the uniform for her child, and every possible reason to fight for them to do so.

My worry would be that of they are that fussy with uniform then how good would they be at adapting to needs of a sen child.

Can you have it written into echp about clothing? The school should make reasonable adjustments

Never send a child to a school which demands you 'support the school 100%'. Your job is to support your child, and stand up for him/her if the school is being unreasonable. While there are many great schools and wonderful teachers, there are also bullies and idiots working in education, and if your child is distressed by what's happening at the school you as a parent need to challenge the school, not wring your hands and tell your kids they must learn to obey their betters...

Not so much the uniform itself but the seeming lack of flexibility and other issues that may come along with that sort of attitude.

This would be my attitude and the follow up comment about how “wont budge on one as she would have to for all others” would send shivers down my spine.

If our school had taken that attitude, we wouldn’t have the success we’ve had with our girl at school. Allowing flexibility is the only way to do inclusion properly.

She has adjustments to the uniform at Nursery but I didn't need that written into the EHCP as they just accepted it even though the uniform is compulsory once your in the preschool room. She wears a cotton tshirt in the nursery colour and leggings, even though uniform is formal school type trousers/skirt/pinafore and polo shirt.

If they've said they can meet her needs then surely that means adjusting the uniform to meet her sensory needs?

I thought children with an EHCP got first choice of schools even if those schools are out of catchment? Admittedly my child goes to a special school which doesn't technically have a catchment area so I haven't had to deal with that side of school admissions.

Get the adaptation to uniform written into the EHCP before school transfer - it shoudln't be too hard as it is already being done, so you are not fighting for anything new. Then apply to whichever school would, in general, best meet your child's needs.

The provisions in the EHCP MUST be provided, as I understand it, so the school CANNOT insist that your child wears the standard uniform if adaptations to uniform are specified in the EHCP (I think - worth checking with the specialists involved)

head is of the attitude that if they do it for one then the others will want it.

That is a massive red flag. They obviously don't understand their obligations under the Equality Act.

Agree with PP who say if a school is named on an EHCP they have to admit, regardless of their admissions policy.Choose the school that you feel is most suited to your daughter's needs and then request that one is named on the EHCP.

Yanbu.

My ds has asd and an EHCP and attends a MS. It's not our catchment. They also do after Easter blazer is optional.

Ds won't tuck in shirt or do too button up. I couldn't give a shit because he has far more barriers to his learning and I don't believe doing these things will achieve better academic results for him.

I went with the school who are least uppity about the 'rules' and more so about the pastoral care.

Ironically this school has the least uniform issues locally yet the more 'relaxed' approach. AND has the best results and ofsted rating.

Go figure!

I have 2 DC with SN, and I'd say the attitude of the Head is really key to how well your child will be supported, regardless of whether your child has a EHCP or not. Have the 4 other primaries confirmed to the LA they can't meet your DD's needs or is this what they've told you when you've contacted them?

It's what they've told me and the Nursery SENCO when we both separately contacted them

I feel that YANBU. Strict uniforms don’t help the learning process and time is lost changing for PE with all those buttons.

My DDs school changed to this type of uniform this year, from its previous polo shirts and cardigan. They hate having their buttons done up to the top so they can wear ties.

In the case of their school, it had been struggling a great deal, lost the head amongst some upheaval, and converted to an academy. A lot of care went into new signs and a web page, and a new logo for every piece of uniform. But it rather felt as though the school was made to look smart, covering up the problems underneath.

Since then I’ve felt suspicious of primary schools with formal, logoed uniforms.

If she has an EHCP then you can name School 2 in the plan and she should be allocated a place. You can say that School 1 doesn’t meet her needs as they will not make reasonable adjustments to the uniform to accommodate your daughter.

Senco said that it would be a problem if she couldn't wear the uniform because the head is of the attitude that if they do it for one then the others will want it

Really? Senco is talking out of their arse then. DD is in a very strict SS. The school senco kindly enlisted some help and simply got her tie adapted for her to wear comfortably. She's yet to be reprimanded by the HT for such a crime.

DS has ASD & ADHD. He can't do up buttons or undo them. He went to school in smart joggers for years until we found some elasticated school trousers for his age group.

Being comfortable in the clothing that you have to wear for at least 30 hours per week isn't insignificant.

DS is NT, but very particular about clothing and hates trousers. His school has a typical primary school uniform with a few flexible options. Initially the uniform was set out as winter/ summer uniform, and that first winter every day was a battle to get the trousers on. Then the governors decided that dictating a season didn't really matter and the children were able to wear any uniform item all year. Being able to wear shorts all year has made such a difference each morning.

I'm not keen on little children in stuffy, pretentious uniforms anyway, but forcing a child with sensory issues into one day in, day out would be miserable and undermine other aspects of their school life. I agree that it also doesn't sound like it bodes well for the school's attitude to wider issues.

Don't apply for that school.

Remember, the results they get are based on the NT children, many kids with SEN don't take sats.

If the head won't hear a reasonable argument for a uniform adjustment, then he/she is likely to be a massive twat about every other reasonable adjustment as well. Assembly too loud? Tough shit. Playground too bitchy? Tough shit. Uniform too scratchy? Tough shit.

Avoid avoid avoid!!!!