To think that the council shouldn't put problem families together

[dimondjedi9]

Either side of me I have lovely neighbours, they care about their children and just generally want a nice peaceful life.
Going further down and there are many problem families, police attending regularly and kids left to run riot.
I live in a new estate and to begin with it was lovely, now it has an awful reputation.
I don’t like my son playing out because of bullying and when you try to discuss it with the parents you get a lot of abuse.
I don’t understand why the council put all these families in the same place, it creates such an awful environment.

Really? I think you’ll find that the kids of the families you’re talking about DO, in fact they’re our regulars! Some of the Mums have been coming to the literacy classes (schools woefully failing the previous generation have led to problems in this one), and the AA and NA groups are bursting at the seams.

I’m not mixing anything up, for some reason you’ve decided that an entire group of people aren’t worth helping. Part of the problem, not the solution.

Kids in challenging families do come to those projects. They don't go to uniformed groups though.
There was a project near me working with teenagers not at school, training or employment. They used to appear at the door before we opened. We had showers, fed them, and provided basic education and access to work into getting into apprenticeships, to get them back on track. The centre is now closed and standing empty.
Of course not all kids from challenging families engages with services. But there are those who want a way out, but need help to get on track.

Yeah, uniformed groups tend to be bloody expensive (which is part of why mine don’t go). It’s a real shame that there isn’t more support for grass roots community projects and they often fail through lack of funding NOT lack of interest.

And every bloody Government wants new ideas, not to invest in what has been proven to work.

Where I live the adventure playgrounds set up in the 80s have closed down over the last few years. These were free to go to, and kids could just turn up. They used to get the same kids from 5 year olds turning up night after night looking for some adult attention and parenting. Instead money has been spent on paid childcare, which these kids will never access.

brasty exactly! With funding withdrawn and everything costing a prohibitive amount I don’t see how the government expects things to get better! Even the most basic things like drug and alcohol treatments which could make an enormous difference to areas like ours. There’s a 28 week waiting list! I mean ffs.

These families have always existed. But breaking the cycle with the kids takes a lot of resources that most Governments will not fund. There have been small scale projects that work, and are expensive.

Bitching about the ASBOs is easy. I don't condone asocial behaviour. I am not hugging every junkie and a little gobshite throwing stones at cars is a little gobshite. But as a society we can't just write these people off. We need programmes breaking the vicious cycle of poverty, illiteracy, asocial behaviour. Those people, this behaviour will not go away if you ignore it and move them all together away from the nice areas.

Jesikita for Prime Minister! 🙌🏼

You have restored my faith in MN.

Bitching about the ASBOs is easy. I don't condone asocial behaviour. I am not hugging every junkie and a little gobshite throwing stones at cars is a little gobshite. But as a society we can't just write these people off. We need programmes breaking the vicious cycle of poverty, illiteracy, asocial behaviour. Those people, this behaviour will not go away if you ignore it and move them all together away from the nice areas

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to say written in a much more concise, articulate way than I managed!

These families have always existed. But breaking the cycle with the kids takes a lot of resources that most Governments will not fund. There have been small scale projects that work, and are expensive.

Yup. Costs a lot of money to break the cycle, and it won't be a 100% success so 'society' won';t give their blessing.

Like with prisoners - spending lots of money on education, training, mental healthcare etc as part of rehabilitation, finding them secure housing afterwards and providing ongoing support massively cuts down on re offending. But, society wants punishment, so prison. Fuck it. Fuck em. Fuck ourselves.

The problem is that many people do not want to be helped, we used to live in an affluent place - on the face of it - but below the wealthy surface 30% of the population is in poverty and many remain so despite good housing being provided. If parents do not value education and do not encourage their children to try to improve their lot there is little you can do. We used to see small children out late at night being abusive to people trying to help them, not to mention a lot of under teenage drinking and drugs. I am sure many of them by now will be in social housing with another generation of problems already produced

FFS some teenagers have always been out late at night taking drugs and alcohol, including wealthy kids. Except the wealthy kids are a bit more hidden away. Most kids grow out of this. Similarly not everyone is ambitious. That is fine if they are happy to get by. Don't assume everyone wants the same thing. Very very different from the kind of families we are talking about.

The kind of families we are talking about I grew up living close by. Like the family who my dad returning from his shift work found crawling in the snow at 3 am. When he took the baby back home, they didn't seem too concerned. That is the level of poor parenting that leads to these issues.

And at the same time Social Services have had budgets slashed. Social workers do not have the time in many places, to take on any but the most extreme cases. The rougher the area you live in, the more likely Social Workers have a very high threshold before they get involved.

Dealing with these issues takes long term sustained investment. Not 1 or even 3 year funding cycles.

The SS issue is very real, the threshold locally (from speaking to HV and also two instances of reporting through things I’ve witnessed) is incredibly high, there just isn’t the funding available.
Teenagers out on the piss isn’t a class thing! At my old work (care home) the issues caused by pissed up teenagers were because they were drunken little shits who had been given a shitload of money by their parents to fuck off out (private school educated, in no way in poverty)

I hear you op, I live in a council house in a very lovely sought after village there are two council roads that run parallel to each other at end of the village, luckily I live in the nicer street, all working parents/single mums etc the street behind is awful full of families of 8 plus, constant drug raids, banned dogs, fights and anti social behaviour etc

Police and council have told me they like to keep them all close together so they know where they are!

It has to be unattractive to repeat the cycle. Is has to be unattractive to produce large families and not support them yourself.

That's why we have these problems. They end up in council accommodation as private all can be choosy about who lives in their property and many won't accept HB which the families are likely to claim.

Making it unattractive to have children where parents won't support them is the way. If the person can only get JSA they would have to think hard about having a child rather than the current situation of them having children as it means money and a way out of working. It should be punishable by law to not support a child financially as a parent whether together or single.

Schools can try their best to instil education, safer sex etc but the main role models usually set the scene for the next generation.

No it is not as simple as making it unattractive to have large families. You have to have an alternative.

Make them work is an alternative. Time limit job seekers or income support. Knowing it would end and couldn't be reclaimed would soon motivate them. Their behaviour etc would have to change to make an employer take them on.

Throwing money at people doesn't work, it just encourages a lifestyle and future problems.

So where pray tell are all these jobs within school hours, or affordable childcare, good transport links, job security and no zero hour contracts? Because that’s the only way to ensure people can sustain themselves and their families.

Would you employ them?

The kind of people we are talking about struggle to hold down a job. My first serious bf came from a family like this. Dad had fucked off years ago. I really can't imagine anyone employing his mum, or if they did, her keeping the job.

Also, income support now stops on your youngest child’s first birthday. I’m guessing with the new cap that’s your second child. Jobseekers is for 6 months at a time, not forever.

Splitting up problem families doesn’t help either. My neighbours moved in a year ago and are succeeding in bringing the area down. They don’t work, take drugs, have noisy parties full of druggies and shout and scream at each other. The rest of the street are nice hardworking people but none of that has rubbed off on them.

Can you complain to the housing association or whoever gives the tenancy to those neighbours. And keep complaining.