Two minutes silence and refusing to serve customer

[BalugaBelle]

At work today I was on the checkout (large retail store) and the silence was announced over a tannoy.

A woman (on the phone) came up to the checkout during the silence, so I shushed her. Motioned to poppies next to till!

She then said, "I'm going to miss my train, please continue serving me!"

I refused, shook my head and sat silently for the two minutes.

At the end I put her items through, she moaned at me and called me rude and petty and then went on her merry way.

So was I being unreasonable to respect the two minutes silence, even if it meant a customer was unhappy at me doing so?

I know good customer service is needed but surely the two minutes silence takes priority? She clearly had no respect!

Quite frankly I didn't give a damn about her train, I was paying my respects as was everyone else in the shop. It was literally almost silent apart from young children (understandable) and general noise, i.e., heating making noises!

At the lower level, it is still pretty much recruitment from deprived areas. It certainly was when I was at school. They constantly advertise on the radio as well so I doubt it is particularly hard to join.

So part of your argument is based on something you noticed when you were at school and the fact there are radio adverts?

From a BBC article:

Harry Leslie Smith, a 92-year-old World War Two RAF veteran, has not worn a poppy since 2013 because he believes "the spirit of my generation has been hijacked" by latter-day politicians to "sell dubious wars" in Afghanistan and Iraq.

He says the Royal British Legion does much good work for ex-service personnel, but argues that if politicians "want war they must be prepared to pay for the consequences and not leave it to charity"

Basically and I bet Harry Leslie Smith is not the only one who feels this way.

Quite frankly I didn't give a damn about her train

Then you should have served her silently.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/09/british-army-is-targeting-working-class-young-people-report-shows

Wild you indicated in your post that RBL has simply a partial beneficiary of the poppy appeal and not the organiser or main benefactor. Now you've changed your mind and said they are. Which is it?

notreally so your experience of army recruitment is 15 years ago too? Before the recession, whilst under a government whose whole ethos is around the government creating jobs to create wealth? Righto

So part of your argument is based on something you noticed when you were at school and the fact there are radio adverts?

No, it is well known that this is what they do and that among the lower ranks, the vast majority are from lower socio-economic backgrounds and with poor educational achievement. But fine if you want to pretend that it's not and that every boy who gets sent to Afghanistan to fight on the front line is a totally willing participant who has decided that out of the many career options open to him, this one is the best.

Interestingly the radio ads are also based around finally 'belonging' once you join the army- ie maybe targeting those who feel they don't fit in.

Wild you indicated in your post that RBL has simply a partial beneficiary of the poppy appeal and not the organiser or main benefactor. Now you've changed your mind and said they are. Which is it?

Sorry for being misleading. What I meant is that only a small proportion actually goes to the benevolent fund. Same as any other charity really.

My DSis’s DSS (20) has just joined the army. It was a long, arduous process, I can tell you. He did training in public service, and then intensive army training. It took a long time, it isn’t something young people can just do in response to Government propaganda.

There are a lot who join from working class backgrounds, because of a lack of opportunities to find employment. It’s hardly surprising they would see it as an option.

Then you should have served her silently.

Wrong. Then following the tannoy announcement, the customer should have left the shop.

Sounds like she was rude and disrespectful.if it was a store wide thing I’m assuming no one else was serving so unfortunate for her I don’t think you were unreasonable. Perhaps your store should consider putting a sign up next year if that’s their procedure so that customers are aware in advance that they won’t be served at this time.

Bubblebubblepop well my experience of recruiting before war wouldn’t be more recent would it? Since the last time Britain declared war formally was 2003. Previous to that it was Op Herrick in Afghan.

Whether we like it or not the forces DO recruit heavily in the run up to conflicts. Yes more specialised roles may require longer training, but the infantry are boots on the ground and require less intensive training. The last major conflict classed as a war was Iraq, when in actual fact the “war” element lasted for precisely 28 days. The rest was deemed peacekeeping, which in reality changes the rules of engagement.

Right wild. So you would agree then, that RBL, who organise and benefit from the poppy appeal and RD, can't stop wars from taking place all over the world?

Wrong. Then following the tannoy announcement, the customer should have left the shop

I certainly would have left the shop, sans purchase, if teller refused to serve me.

The silence isn’t compulsary (yet), although you’d hardly know it.

For various reasons I do not like the National Anthem. However, when it is played I stand in silence. When I am in a foreign country and their national anthem is played I stand in silence.

It doesn't matter if you agree with the 2 minutes silence it is massively rude and disrespectful to talk through it.

Just because the OP works in retail does not mean she has no rights and no personal dignity. Everyone. Everyone should be treated with respect. To imply the woman could override the OPs wish to respect a national tradition because she works in a shop is shameful.

This is about more than the 2 minutes silence this is about personal dignity.

I was in a shopping centre yesterday and didn't hear the announcement. One of my kids was being a nightmare, I've got loads of other stresses going on and to be perfectly honest couldn't have even told you what month it was, let alone the time or date. At 11:02 a couple came up to me and had a right go, calling me disrespectful and implying I was a horrible person. I was absolutely devastated, I do respect and was sorry that I just hadn't realised. Not sure what this adds to the discussion, but the whole incident is still upsetting me, because I truly do respect those who fight/fought for our freedom, but by not observing the silence I am an awful person.

She could have gone to the self check out?

YANBU

Think me arrogant then because i do feel a better person because i respect the dead.

There are a lot who join from working class backgrounds, because of a lack of opportunities to find employment. It’s hardly surprising they would see it as an option

Exactly. And as the article that sentimental posted shows, the Army deliberately targets these lower socio-economic groups. I never said that joining the army is 'easy' in terms of the physical endurance. Of course it's not- they don't call it army training for nothing. I am sure your DN worked hard to get in. But why do middle-class kids not want to join and why does the Army feel that its best target for recruitment is young people who have very few other options? Why does it make it extremely difficult for those young people to leave if they change their minds? Bearing in mind that being in the army and fighting on the frontline carries a high risk of death, serious injury and mental trauma which might put the average person off joining up.

Think me arrogant then because i do feel a better person because i respect the dead

So you either observe this culturally imposed silence of you don’t respect the dead?

Think me arrogant then because i do feel a better person because i respect the dead

Yes. You're also the type of person who hijacks the silence to make them morally superior.

I have just started a community project to help local veterans without family. I organised a local community effort to clear up the war memorial. I donated my time (and my businesses) time to promote the local remembrance parade and service including designing them a website, running their social media and organising their newsletters.

But sure. If you think being quiet for 2 mins makes you so much superior knock yourself out.

Yes exactly. A cultural norm is how respect is born. Every act of respect is a cultural norm thats how it becomes a thing.

I don't really understand your point tbh. The army is an employer. One that has a huge number of employees. It's neither well paid nor glamorous- of course they have a target market.

After all, down the road Deutsche bank are smoozing soon to be Oxford graduates to get them into their employment. The army aren't there trying to convince them to turn down £50k and a city lifestyle and sign up are they?

Look how anti-join-military many MNers are. I think it might be a middle class value in itself "We don't do that sort of thing." Any MN thread asking "What could you never tolerate your adult child doing?" gets ample answers "They must never Join the military."

DS might be a bit dim and me too. Took DS 13 months from starting his application to finally join the Army. There was A LOT of paperwork and many screening stages and waiting around for bureaucracy.

Most DS junior soldier colleagues have poor English & math skills, & spend a lot of time improving those. Most kids with DS's GCSE grades do A-levels & then join to be officers. In the field, there are more lower rank soldiers than officers, so not surprising that more kids with tougher backgrounds are among the casualties.

Right wild. So you would agree then, that RBL, who organise and benefit from the poppy appeal and RD, can't stop wars from taking place all over the world?

No- when did I say this? This is a government-driven thing, it's not the RBL who organises the 2 minute silence and pressures every single person who appears in public to wear a poppy etc. The government can definitely prevent wars taking place- such as not helping to arm terrorist groups, such as taking a public stand against nuclear threats etc.

None of my beef is with the RBL although I feel they should not have to look after wounded soldiers with the proceeds of donations from the public- that should fall to the government.

Yes exactly. A cultural norm is how respect is born

And everyone has to abide by those norms? What if they don’t agree with a particular norm? What if they don’t think standing stock still for two minutes does respect the dead?

Are they not allowed to disagree with or challenge or out from norms they don’t agree with?