Two minutes silence and refusing to serve customer

[BalugaBelle]

At work today I was on the checkout (large retail store) and the silence was announced over a tannoy.

A woman (on the phone) came up to the checkout during the silence, so I shushed her. Motioned to poppies next to till!

She then said, "I'm going to miss my train, please continue serving me!"

I refused, shook my head and sat silently for the two minutes.

At the end I put her items through, she moaned at me and called me rude and petty and then went on her merry way.

So was I being unreasonable to respect the two minutes silence, even if it meant a customer was unhappy at me doing so?

I know good customer service is needed but surely the two minutes silence takes priority? She clearly had no respect!

Quite frankly I didn't give a damn about her train, I was paying my respects as was everyone else in the shop. It was literally almost silent apart from young children (understandable) and general noise, i.e., heating making noises!

I think about the poor bastards who were little more than boys who were conscripted to die in the trenches of WWI.
That has nothing to do with politic or government and everything to do with remembering that the rich and powerful can and will fuck you over.

Those people on this thread who don’t observe it, what do you do if you are in a supermarket etc when it happens? Do you stand there yakking to yourself while everyone glares daggers? Disagree with it all you like but to deliberately not do it is a dick move b

The army targets kids from deprived areas

They do in the run up to war being declared.

Some wanky enforced silence? Utterly disgusting comment.

And how do you think that these young men and women feel to hear someone like you dismiss everything they went through and the ceremonies to remember it as “wanky”? Because everything else you’ve said, I’ve agreed with. But to use a word like that is offensive and unnecessary as I said before. For some reason you’ve chosen not to respond.

I thought I did respond to that upthread. I do not mean to cause offence. I do not believe that what they have been through is trivial or should be described as wanky. I used it to refer to the hypocritical way the media and government dress war up as something glorious, remembering the fallen heroes. The government were the ones who forced these men to die. They had no choice. The soldiers of today ostensibly have choice, but in reality they don't. They are often recruited from sink-estates and offered a seeming way out of a miserable future. They are then isolated from the rest of society and face financial penalties if they want to leave.

That is the real crime here and maybe wanky was the wrong word to use. But it fills me with rage that we are supposed to observe all this (and if we don't, it's unpatriotic) when the same things keep happening over and over again and the money we pay for the poppies allows the state to further shirk its responsibilities towards the poor men and women who are just treated as pawns in a big political game.

I can't believe the number of people who think the op should have served. Rubbish. A customers right to not observe does not get to cancel the ops right to observe as per her store policy and every other staff member. And as for the customer was in a rush - rubbish. There could have been 3 people in front of her, heavy traffic, not the ops fault the customer didn't leave enough time. She clearly didn't have enough time to go shopping, and if I'm that late I'm not chatting and laughing on my phone.

The OP didn't cause the rude customer to (potentially) miss her train. That was down to her own poor organisation.

Targeting kids from deprived areas is at least outdated- it's really very hard to join the army now. It's not something you do because you have no other choice or are a bit

Really? It depends at what level you join. At officer level, it may be hard. But you're less likely to be blown to shreds. At the lower level, it is still pretty much recruitment from deprived areas. It certainly was when I was at school. They constantly advertise on the radio as well so I doubt it is particularly hard to join.

The entire point of the 2 minute silence is that we take 2 minutes out of every YEAR to reflect on the hundreds of thousands of people who have died for our freedom. In WW1 and WW2 many of them were teenagers left rotting in foreign fields. It's not so that we mindlessly carry on putting someone's shopping through the till so they can get their train - in silence or not. It's hugely disrespectful. YANBU, OP. I think I'd have recalled my great-uncles slow and painful death in a concentration camp and told her I didn't give two sh*ts about her train.

The army targets kids from deprived areas

They do in the run up to war being declared.

DS1 went through the selection process very swiftly because he was fit. From him filling in the online form, to arriving at Phase 1 training was 4 months. It was a further 10 months before he got to regiment.

How far in advance do you think they think about declaring war?

Thank you for responding Wild, as it happens with the word wanky removed I agree with everything you’ve said.

Governments send soldiers to war to further their own agenda, with fuck all support either during or after. They have no care whatsoever for the damage both physical and mental done, and absolve themselves of any responsibility which is not only very wrong, it is morally reprehensible. But for me, Remembrance isn’t about the governments, it’s about the forces personnel, the ones who didn’t come home, the ones who came home injured or mentally changed forever. That’s what it means in our house at any rate. DP was one of the “lucky” ones, he went to Iraq at 18 and 19, Op Telic 1 and 4.5. Unlike BIL he doesn’t have PTSD but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t haunt him. It hurts me to see his eyes when he talks about it, about the reality of life in the theatre of war.
My dad’s best friend is the only outstanding member of the armed forces in NI, Captain Robert (Bob) Nairac, and on Remembrance Sunday my dad isn’t thinking about governments or politicians, he’s remembering his dear friend who was tortured to death.

That’s my point I suppose, that it means different things to different people, and we must be careful of the language we use.

Those people on this thread who don’t observe it, what do you do if you are in a supermarket etc when it happens? Do you stand there yakking to yourself while everyone glares daggers? Disagree with it all you like but to deliberately not do it is a dick move

I quietly carry on with what I am doing.

TheFairyCaravan in the run up to Iraq the process was a hell of a lot quicker.

I can't believe the comment about targeting deprived areas in the run up to war being declared. Are you really that uneducated?

Wild you don't know anything about army recruitment so may as well zip it. You've made some good points on the thread but I'm starting to wonder how informed they were now...

@Bubblebubblepop actually I’m the partner and SIL of two men who WERE recruited in mid 2002 along with hundreds of others.

YANBU. You were right not to serve her

It is not just 2 minutes silence;
it's 2 minutes remembering those who died while serving in the British armed forces
Serving in silence isn't doing that.

An employer has the right, if they decide, to require staff to either observe the 2 minutes, or to,go out of sight of the public.
That's part of their public image, just like a uniform or standards of personal tidiness and hygiene.
An employer can also decide not to, if they are providing an emergency service, or even if they just don't want to lose 2 minutes profits.

The customer was disrespectful;
she has the right not to observe it, but not to demand others do what she wants

Amazing how some people get angry if they can't shop every waking moment

2 minutes silence and wearing poppies has nothing to do with supporting politicians or war; it is respect for the fallen.
It's not always cool or clever to go against social norms.

At the lower level, it is still pretty much recruitment from deprived areas. It certainly was when I was at school. They constantly advertise on the radio as well so I doubt it is particularly hard to join.

It isn't easy to join the army. It's certainly not recruitment from deprived areas. You have to be very fit for a start, there's a 3 day selection where you need to pass a fitness test to get in. It's not a turn up and blag it type of fitness test either. DS1 got in really easily because he trained hard, our friend's son had to take it 3 times before he passed.

They advertise for teachers on the tele but I doubt it's easy to become one.

The silence isn't compulsory but the store announced they were doing it and OP wished to observe it. The customer was frankly rude and ignorant for not observing it.
I had to ask in a clothes shop if they would be turning the music off as I would go outside if not and their attitude was disgusting begrudgingly turned it off. I didn't ask them to just if they would be observing it. It gets worse every year with less and less people paying their respects for our fallen soldiers.

I think about the poor bastards who were little more than boys who were conscripted to die in the trenches of WWI
That has nothing to do with politic or government and everything to do with remembering that the rich and powerful can and will fuck you over

So do I and I think it's horrific. It does have something to do with politics and the government though and if you think it doesn't, that is naive. Unless the government backed the poppy and the 2 minute silence, it would not be so widespread. It allows a rose-tinted view to be taken- these are our fallen heroes. It glosses over the fact that a load of overweight politicians who would shit themselves if they ever went near a war-zone, forced them to be sent to an inevitable death. If they refused, they were publicly ridiculed. They were given no support when they returned. Yet, they can now be painted as glorious heroes who sacrificed themselves so that we could all be free and ensure it never happens again. Except it keeps happening, even though it is more subtle.

People are getting more angry about someone not observing a silence in a shop than they are about the government's hypocrisy.

WildBluebelles I'm a bit confused. You say the RBL get part of the proceeds from the sale of poppies - where does the rest go? According to their website "All net Poppy Appeal income raised goes into the Royal British Legion Benevolent Fund, and is made available to beneficiaries according to need, regardless of where they live, and includes beneficiaries who qualify overseas". Why do you think this is not the case?

Regarding why we don't have a two minute silence for cancer victims, presumably it's because (sad as it is) they didn't give up their lives so that you are free to express your views on a public forum.

I don't agree that the whole public is expected to participate in Remembrance Day. It is a choice. I do think news readers should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to wear a poppy (but unfortunately, I think the general public tend to complain if they don't!).

I also believe the government should be responsible for looking after veterans properly, but that is really not what it is all about for most people. I can't stand Tony Blair, but just because he observes the two minute silence doesn't mean I'm not going to just as some sort of protest.

Notreallyarsed not for all regiments. DS1 has had to pass loads of tests, including driving tests for the vehicles he's on, mechanical tests, and other tests. They've always had a long Phase 2

It isn't easy to join the army. It's certainly not recruitment from deprived areas.

Riiiight so how many of the young kids aged 19, 20, 21 who we have read about being killed in Iraq or Afghanistan come from middle-class families? The majority are from lower socio-economic backgrounds and I refuse to believe that it's just a coincidence. Why else do they target comprehensives in rough areas for their recruitment?

Also, a 3 day selection procedure and a fitness test does not make it 'hard' to join. I am not saying these lads aren't fit- of course they have to be fit to join. I am saying that if they didn't join, their future might not look so rosy so the Army is presented as an attractive option to them and once they are in, it's extremely hard to leave.

I think the sanctimonious claptrap here is indicative of why many choose not to engage with remembrance any more.

Some of the comments tell you everything you need to know about a person. I am related to those who died in wars past in concentration camps and those who liberated them as are most people. I also live with 2 people with severe ptsd and physical disability from more recent conflicts. But sure suggest its because i am virtue signalling. Surely its the other way around? You are the ones virtue signalling that you are so against war and politics you refuse to be silent for 2 sodding minutes to respect those dead (not just british dead either). Those dead who gave up so much whether they wanted to or not. Your just too busy/too important/ too arrogant to give up 2 minutes of your time to quietly reflect on history and current circumstances. That has nothing to do with civilian people what happens in politics. We dont control war so stop the bullshit pretending we should be stopping governments fighting as if we personally make a difference or we shouldnt do the silence/poppies if we dont give our life savings to H4H (i give hundreds to them personally). I think deliberatly flouting it because the weird idea that you dont agree with it is rude like laughing at someones funeral when everyone is crying. Its about respecting lives lost and ruined. Not about glorifying war.

Quirkyturkey they didn't give up their lives, they were forced to give up their lives, killed essentially. If they didn't go, they faced prison and being ostracised. It was not voluntary and I don't want to participate in a ceremony that pretends that it was.

Secondly, of course not all the money goes to the benevolent fund. In common with all major charities, I am sure that the executive board of the RBL take pretty fat six figure salaries. In any event, we are all expected to pay into the benevolent fund so that it can pick up the pieces and the government can continue to avoid responsibility.

Your just too busy/too important/ too arrogant to give up 2 minutes of your time to quietly reflect on history and current circumstances

No. I think it more arrogant to think you're a better person because you do. I would never make someone talk, but I also expect my freedom of thought to be respected.

I think it far more important to recognise the sacrifice on more occasions than one two minute period in November