AIBU to think the Finnish school system can't be this good....

[2boyz1girl]

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And it's just the media jumping on the bandwagon.....

There is no need to learn things by heart because we always have the internet' - I agree that tonnes of rote learning can be boring and uneccessary but that quote seems to undermine learning and gaining knowledge completely by saying 'well we can always google.' I find it really sad. Children are generally born loving to learn 'stuff' - that should be encouraged, not dismissed as pointless because they all have a smart phone or whatever

I think this totally misses the point. What do you think they are doing when the google things they need to know? Learning! They are totally right that there is no need to rote learn big chunks of info anymore, children are learning in a different world to the pre internet one, they need to be taught in a way that makes sense now, not harking back to before.
This doesn't undermine learning or inquistiveness at all, it enhances it. It's all about open source intelligence now.

There's a common phrases heard in Finnish schools from the pupils (in the higher grades of course) which is "fucking google it!"

The finnish language is easy? Really?

they learn to sew, knit, do woodwork and metalwork and cook in the early grades already

that sounds like hell for kids who don't have great coordination.

I'm sure a lot of the kids have to go to secondary school a long way from home, especially in the north. I spent a couple of summers in Finland when I was at university and my host family took me to visit their relatives in the north (Ranua, not too far from the Arctic Circle). I remember seeing signposts to villages (more or less down a dirt track) and the sign might say 42km - with a postbox at the end of it! I couldn't believe it - imagine having to travel that far to get your post! I guess those kids weekly board?

Lack of homework sounds great - I really can't see the point of it other than to practice reading during the early years, and to help with revision in years 10 upwards.

Wizzywig
It is the easiest language for a native to learn to read and write.

It's easy for a native to learn, or a young immigrant child, but hell to learn as an adult!

There's a big focus on coordination and motor skills in the early years before school disahsterdahling and doing sewing etc. from a young age will help develop those skills even more. I'm sure those that still struggle would get extra help. And it's not like they jump in at the deep end, they start off with very easy projects - DD just made a hook-holder for father's day and the teacher did the sawing and drilling and the children just learnt how to use sandpaper to smooth the wood, and varnished it after painting.

It sounds unreal.

I dont believe that crock of shite article. Where is the evidence that their school system is producing good results rather than another aspect of their society.

Their teachers are better paid and work less so big up their schools. In the UK teachers work harder for less money and talk down the schools.

It looks like 30 years ago, for a brief time, Finland just happened, by accident or coincidence, to align their education system with one particular international test and focused all their efforts on getting everyone up to the average grade boundary for it.

So everyone got an equally average education.
The truth of the matter is that Finland is not producing the best educated people in the world, they are just bog standard.

Er no Julie the Finnish education system is definitely good (just not like what the article is claiming, that is mostly bullshit) for several reasons, because the teachers are high quality and can teach in the ways that suit them, because equality in education is valued so much so there's a big emphasis on everyone getting the same quality and counteracting socio-economic differences (socio-economic level doesn't impact achievement in Finnish schools like it does in UK schools), free school meals for everyone helps with that so no child is hungry when they need to be learning, because special ed is available to everyone that needs it when they need it without needing to wait for assessments and whatnot (teachers meet with the head teacher, special ed teachers, school psychiatrist and social workers each week and discuss which children need extra help, whether academic or behavioural or with their home life, and the next week those children get that help), because teachers and education are respected and considered worthwhile (that's a societal thing, obviously much more difficult to replicate elsewhere), and because educators and politicians 50 years ago realised the education system (which then was a grammar school system and very inequitable) needed changing even though it would be hard and people might complain and it would be a long process.

Some of these things sound like the curriculum for excellence in Scotland.

I like the idea of it but I know there have been a few critics...

Natsku I didn't say the Finnish system wasn't good. But you have just described a system that has lots of money thrown at it. That's not evidence that the system itself is particularly good.

I would postulate that an English school given those resources would produce excellence at all levels, not just in the middle.

Sevendown If that's what they are doing in Scotland then its obviously not working.

I have a Finnish relation with a specific learning difficulty and she has not been served well by her school.

UK spends more on education than Finland does Julie it's not about how much is spent but how that spending is used data.oecd.org/eduresource/education-spending.htm

A BEd student at my TT college had spent a year of her course in Finland. She raved about it. Apparently they has poached salmon and hollanaise for school lunch and Friday afternoons off for ice-skating practice. That alone convinced me it is far superior.

In all seriousness, though, I think they are getting a lot right that we are not.

UK spends more on education than Finland does
Getting my figures from wikipedia so hope they are right, Finland spends 6.8% of GDP on Education whilst the UK only spends 5.6% So yes if you throw money at something you will get results. Doesn't mean it is a better system, just a better resourced system.

poached salmon and hollanaise for school lunch and Friday afternoons off

Who wouldn't love that system

You need to look at per student spending not percentage of GDP, per student spending is higher in the UK so throwing more money doesn't help.

Maths has dropped 25 points since 2000 and about 35 points since Finland's peak in 2006. There is a trend it's the same for al 3 areas. Results were rising or stagnant between 200 and 2006 and after that they have consistently dropped in every testing cycle. The exception to this is Reading where the raw scores stayed pretty much the same between 2012 and 2015.

That's not to say that the results aren't still good at the moment. But if we are going to emulate the education system of another country, we probably shouldn't be looking at one with declining academic standards.

So your saying he UK spends way to much on education. All we need to do is change our system and we can save a fortune whilst getting better results. Sorry, I am not convinced.

They centralised the university system to better control quality of teacher education and standards (most do masters and lots of CPD)

^^
Agree agree agree

Not in Finland, but in a country not too far off, and teaching is a profession on a par with being a professor, medical doctor, PhD researcher etc.

People aim for teaching and don’t just use it as a ‘well nothing else is available’ option. Also in those countries banking etc is not highly revered like in the uk. Those great at maths/ physics etc aim for teaching, in the uk lots aim for banking when they have a maths masters etc.

Again, DC’s nursery school has a PhD, and that is commonplace, it is largely a must even from nursery level. The minute that DS 1 was approaching 3 back in the UK, he was itching to get out as the nurseries that we visited just for a plan B, were all largely money making schemes and showed minimal child developmental interests.

Also, on an additional point, countries like Finland have better social mobility. The education system has a direct link to social mobility. The Uk is too obsessed with class, and this is foundationally linked to the educational system.

If they are so happy why do they grow up to have one of the highest suicide rstes and biggest problems with alcoholism and depression.