To be amused at a discussion I can overhear?

[brasty]

At work and currently listening in on a discussion where one woman is trying to explain to a colleague that Jesus was Jewish. Colleague isn't having it

Obviously Jesus was jewish.

Hi brianna5. It is not directly stated. But this is what we see:

www.islam101.com/religions/christianity/mBible.htm

We believe these are the knowing of the prophet mohammads future coming. They describe the peophet mohammad

I can't believe no one picked up on this yet:
Well, all this God being Jesus's dad and then there's Mary - and Joseph as a stepdad, must have made for very awkward Christmases

Christmas?? Christ mas(s)???

Not all Biblical scholars agree, obviously...

Obviously. But this was in response ti brianna5s comment to me.

Very much enjoyed this.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that the word usually translated as 'virgin' in the prophesy related to Mary actually just translates as 'young girl'.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almah

So not to worry about the awkward Christ family discussions.

If Jesus was/is not white, how does this intertwine with previous thread regarding the "well behaved blonde dd's" who are nominated for the part of Mary in the Nativity play? ....not arguing whiteness...

@CardinalSin Yes, absolutely. But although Atwill disputes the mainstream position, he himself acknowledges he's not a biblical scholar. A more appropriate headline might have been 'Californian businessman invents new conspiracy theory'. I'll give him this though: he's managed to unite Christians and atheists in their assessments of the validity of his claims!

Have you looked at Thomas Brodie, Thomas Thompson or Richard Carrier? I think they're probably the best examples of reputable scholars who question the historicity of Jesus. None of them are New Testament specialists but at least they have appropriate academic credentials.

I hope this doesn't come across as massively annoying and argumentative. I struggle with tone sometimes in text and I may be overinvested (I'm an atheist and family members are lay preachers so we have these kinds of discussions a lot). I am very much enjoying discussing with you... hope that's clear...

Not at all argumentative Kittens. I apologise if my earlier comment seemed like I was getting a dig in at anyone.

Like you, I often find it hard to get the tone of posts, and we had all been getting along so well and then a couple of posts looked like it might get fierce - obviously I was wrong. Sorry.

I love a (proper) debate, where people put their point of view and listen to each other, and can even make and take a joke without skin and hair ending up all over the walls. This is the first religion thread I've seen where people haven't ended up personally abusing each other, and it's lovely!

(And thank you for the reading recommendations. I'm a Christian, but am always open to serious debate about any part of my faith. I think it is rare that we ever convert each other, but it's good to discuss it as friends with different viewpoints.)

It's no problem Kittens, but I just always like to pick people up when they claim "there is absolute proof that Jesus existed".

I disagree with some points - Biblical scholars for centuries have been educated and sponsored by the church (not forgetting that it could be fatal to criticise the church for much of that time), and so would be working to a conclusion that was already decided. It's only really in the last 50 years that people have actually started to question this, and so it may not yet be mainstream, but the idea is certainly gaining ground. There is obviously much resistance from those invested in not having the lack of evidence pointed out, but as I say, I personally find it very telling.

God was the original Disney Dad really, wasn't he?

Schadenfreude Oh yes - a religious debate without skin and hair on the walls is just lovely!
And I'm very impressed that you know Greek!

CardinalSin I totally agree with you about absolute proof. There's no absolute proof of anything (except maybe in maths). The stuff I tend to take issue with is when people suggest that the work of today's academic biblical scholars is highly influenced by the churches, although I agree with you that it was generally the case historically. There are now a great many secular scholars (I know you're not a fan of Ehrman, but he's a good example). These days in the UK (and to some extent the US) the churches have very little influence on biblical scholarship. Universities defend academic freedom pretty strenuously. So no doubt the debates about Jesus and history will continue!

And I'm very impressed that you know Greek!

Not a lot - I was on the remedial table at the college.

based in the teachings of Thora

I'm impressed that Thora Hird was involved in setting up the Christian church, too. I suppose it would have a bit much for Paul O'Grady on his own. A lot of admin.

based in the teachings of Thora

As written in the Thor'am?

*Thor'an

Fuckitt! at fat useless fingers

If you have sky or other pay TV some of the documentary channels regularly show Bible programmes. One that intrigued me was the 4 Jesus' and apparently some of the stories about Christ can be attributed to other Jesus's that lived in the 2 Nd and 3rd centuries. So the church couldn't even get their Jesus's right.

Thora Hird and Paul O Grady set up the Christian church? Every day is a school day on MN.

I have learnt waaay more on this thread than I ever did at Sunday school.

Thank you to the clever types for explaining stuff so patiently, and thank you to the funny types who have kept the rest of us laughing throughout!

Thora Hird and Paul O Grady set up the Christian church? Every day is a school day on MN.

Got it in one, Jesus was the spin doctor that they hired.

Schadenfreude I don't believe there can be a remedial table in college Greek . Seriously, Greek!

Are you a pastor/ minister/ priest? Or is that too outing a question?

I was forced to learn Latin at school and some ancient Greek and Hebrew for Relig Studies. And the buggers made me play hockey as well which is just organised violence really.

brasty How could nayone not know that??