I'm an academic and I've dedicated 5 years of my life to getting here and DH wants me to leave my job....

[Choices123]

Just that really DH hates my job and wants me to leave. I have spent the last 3 years doing a PhD, which I completed early last year with no issues and was extremely lucky to walk straight into a permanent senior lectureship (like gold dust in my sector!). However the strain on universities now and what they expect from their staff is immense (or maybe it is just my institution?!). To do my job well (which is the only I way I want to work) I have to put in 50+ hours a week, often more, and continuously dart from stressful situation to stressful situation. I've seen a number of colleagues go off on long term stress and mental health problems, which sadly then increases the strain on the rest of the team. The thing is I love my job, I absolutely love it, I just don't like the amount of it I am supposed to do on a weekly basis.
Dh, quite rightly I feel, hates it, he feels it is impeding too much on our family time, quality of life and more than anything my emotional state - which impacts on me as a parent etc. He is extremely supportive at home and takes on 80% of the household stuff and children school runs etc. I've tried lowering my work load, seeking support from management etc and all to no avail. I'm expected to teach a ridiculous number of hours (with all the prep, assessment and marking that comes with that), oversee students well-being, provide students with one to one support, carry out high level research, generate income, publish high level academic articles, oh and of course write a book or two on the way.... Just not sure where to turn - stick it out and hope it gets easier, or go back to the career I had where I was on equal money, and closed my inbox down at 5pm each day, but I was unhappy!

No advice for OP, but I will admit it angers me to have paid tens of thousands of pounds for my education with more than one lecturer on here admitting they only aim for 'just good enough' when it comes to teaching

Hmm, maybe I'm wrong - I've never applied for one of them, but did see several such appointments when I was a PhD student (incidentally not one of them went to a person straight out of PhD, and I don't remember seeing anyone in that position present). The payscale has both 'university lecturer' and 'university senior lecturer'.

Good enough is just that - good enough.

I think FizzyGreenWater is right. There may be some quirks in specifics institutions or disciplines, but generally a department that is having to fill a senior lecturer post with someone straight from PhD clearly has difficulty attracting and/or retaining experienced staff.

The academic workload is high across the board, but some departments really take the piss in terms of how much work they think they can load onto academics and how little support they're willing to give to facilitate that. I fear this may be what OP is experiencing.

No advice for OP, but I will admit it angers me to have paid tens of thousands of pounds for my education with more than one lecturer on here admitting they only aim for 'just good enough' when it comes to teaching

You'd be paying a lot more if those lecturers weren't attracting other sort of money, via research.

Room please do let the Minister for Higher Education know of your anger.
I hope you did benefit from your university education at least enough to realise that lectures are a very small part of it, though.

lisasimpson

Oxford and Cambridge do like to make their own rules 😜 I know of a few people who have gone into permanent posts straight from Phd at Oxford, sometimes with no publications. Usually white men (my discipline is horrendous for diversity). When I've asked more knowledgeable people about this, I've been told that it's often a result of having very influential supervisors and\or referees.

Room please do let the Minister for Higher Education know of your anger

^This. We aim for just good enough because we're human and sometimes have to do things like eat and sleep, not because we're lazy.

We aim for just good enough because we're human and sometimes have to do things like eat and sleep, not because we're lazy.

Not to mention things like spend time with family or taking the odd day off, unless you'd rather have been taught by robots.

RoomOfRequirement

Actually, what more, in relation to what you got, did you expect from your education?

Your education is your own work, ultimately. Lecturers should be learning facilitators not really teachers.
You probably got a better education by researching topics and lecturers taking a step back from delivering it all to you.

The problem is that student expectations only ever ratchet up higher - they never go down, or even plateau. If one person goes far above and beyond the students don't think that person is exceptional, they think the others should do the same and it's not fair if they don't. Realistically, students will always want slightly more help with their assessments than you give them, no matter how much help that is.

Your first year is going to be harder than later years. However, the fact that some of your longer serving colleagues are off sick, stressed and having long term problems suggests that your institution is not a healthy place to work.
It takes its toll. I went into teaching rather than complete my pHD and fight my way in academia. Just teaching nearly destroyed me after 20 years and I have been described by a psychiatrist as having almost superhuman resilience.
Don't lose sight of what really matters, cut all the corners you can (ethically and practically) and remember no one ever died from attending a less than stellar lecture, getting admin late or missing a deadline.

Realistically, students will always want slightly more help with their assessments than you give them, no matter how much help that is.

I've had a flood of emails this morning from students asking me about the essay, is this approach the right approach, what if I argue this, what reading should I do for that topic, can I look over their plan.

These are final year students at an RG university. The amount of handholding they require is actually quite alarming. It seems worse than ever this year, coupled with the unprecedented flood of LSPs for students. Something has gone very wrong with the UK education system across the board, and enabling that sort of highly-dependent learning is part of the problem, not the solution.

In what other profession is it acceptable to say you're aiming for 'Just good enough'? Especially if people are paying a large amount for that service? I know my patients would not be filled with confidence in my abilities or focus on them if I said that. I can imagine the Daily Mail now if I said that.

And ffs with the 'we have to eat and sleep' - as if thats the choice

The system absolutely needs changing. It's the same in my line of work - where I VERY regularly do go without sleep or food, and regularly work well over 50 hours a week. But I also have enough respect for those whom I'm caring for to not brag about doing 'just enough.'

I will admit it angers me to have paid tens of thousands of pounds for my education with more than one lecturer on here admitting they only aim for 'just good enough' when it comes to teaching.

Have you heard the phrase reading for a degree? You are not at university to be entertained or spoon fed. You go to a lecture which may be good, bad or indifferent. You get an overview of the topic. You take notes and then you go away and read, think, elaborate on your notes amd develop your understanding. If you have questions then you think about them, you research them, you discuss them with your peers and as a last resort go and see the teaching assistant or lecturer.

As an earlier reply said: good enough is good enough.

Soupy we have policies on this too - no reading drafts etc.

I think you need to do both:

• see what can be changed at work to reduce your workload/make it more manageable/carve out work-free times
• talk to your DH about how you both see/desire things to work out in the short/mid/long term.

Regarding the second, I think it is important though to acknowledge that most likely, any job that will give you satisfaction (unlike your previous job that made you unhappy) will have an initial time frame that will be rather full on. But that that is an investment that you probably do need to make in order to protect your long-term happiness prospects. Your DH is worried about your mental health, so presumably he does not want to see you stuck in a job for the rest of your life that makes you unhappy, either.

So whereas I would not (and did not) sacrifice family life for the sake of a job/career for ever, neither would I recommend to sacrifice your career prospects for ever for the sake of your family life (which is kind of what I did do). Instead, look at your job carefully, how it is now, how it will be in a year or two or three. Can you hold out until that first sabbatical? Can you and DH view the first three years in your new job as that mad time that you just need to get through, batten down the hatches, make it the family's priority, because it is highly likely that things will get better afterwards?

(BTW don't let anyone talk you into thinking that any particular three years in your children's lives are THE most essential ones for you to be around a lot.)

Because that is the thing about permanent lectureships. They're permanent. Once you have passed probation (what is it, three years?) it is very unlikely things will go wrong. Once those first manic years are behind you, not only will your work be easier (built up stock of lectures etc) but also you will have much more say in how much pressure you want to submit yourself to. And you will have that sabbatical too.

That is kind of what DP did. Walked into lectureship straight from PhD, quickly promoted to Senior Lecturer then Reader. Worked insanely hard for a few years, then relaxed into his permanent post and put all that 'excellency' stuff on the back burner, for the sake of our family and having time/flexibility for the kids. Especially his research output - he was still researching a lot, but not publishing as much. Did not make his department super happy of course... but that was kind of his 'career break' which he was able to take due to having a permanent post. Now that kids are a bit bigger - he is 10 years into his job - he has been picking up the pace again for the last couple of years, and he has a lot of research ready to be written up and submitted. But he could not have done that - taken a few years of 'down-time' - if he had not had that security of the permanent post.)

So take that into account when discussing with DH. No, your current work load is not sustainable, but (with some adjustments etc where possible) - is it doable, with the support from your whole family, for a few years? With the reward being a long-term happy 'you' in a permanent, rewarding post with career prospects.

Also, from my perspective I strongly advise you to REALLY consider the alternatives (again, jointly with your DH). If you drop out now (to do anything else really) then realistically, you will never reach that 'relative calm' in a permanent academic job. Whenever you think you'd like to go back onto the academic career track, you will be looking at at least a few manic first years to overcome first. Why would it be different if you tried again in a few years? (Especially as you probably wouldn't get anything like your job so easily again) So basically if you drop out now, you're out. Now if the choice really is 'eternal stress' vs. boring, unfulfilling job, then no, I wouldn't go for the eternal stress either, as it won't make you happy in the long term (just like the other job won't) but will stop you from spending time with your family on top of the unhappiness. But if the choice is 'hard draft for a few years' vs 'forever being stuck in a job that makes you unhappy' then (in discussion with DH) I'd advise to stick it out. (Whilst making any adjustments at work, as have been suggested on the thread, that will hopefully enable you to have a slightly more sustainable/manageable workload, of course).

Finally, a PP speculated that you got that permanent senior lectureship due to it basically being in a crap university. If that is the case, then do take that PPs advice to heart, it makes a lot of sense. However I'm thinking it may alternatively be possible that you are a highflier - very notable, successful PhD, probably a few papers published already, top of the 'year' at a first-rate university. And perhaps in a subject where there is slightly less competition (e.g. economics, where a significant proportion of PhDs choose to go into much better paying non-academic jobs).
If that's the case, that you are basically a superstar PhD (which got you that job) - then a) you may very well be putting too much pressure on yourself. You are accustomed to always being the best, always wow-ing everyone. You feel that with the senior lectureship come high expectations and you don't want to disappoint. In that case you need to let go of your perfectionism and relax into the 'good enough'. It's that or leave altogether isn't it?! You say in the OP that you want to do the job right or not at all, but is good enough - even only just good enough - not better than not at all?
And b) If you are such a 'born academic' then I think you would really regret leaving academia behind/forgoing that academic career.

I say all this as someone who never finished that PhD (when I had kids) despite everyone I knew thinking I was the born academic, including leading professors in my field. To get back into academia I would have to start a new PhD from scratch which would be much harder now than it would have been then to finish it. And just as I thought I was taking away too much time from my DS' first few years, I now hesitate to take time away from my DD's first few SCHOOL years. The time will never be right to go back so that's it for me, but I'm finding it hard to carve out a meaningful place in life outside of academia.

worst we do too, but the students try and squirm around them by producing minutely detailed plans rather than drafts. I have a policy of not looking at plans by email, so at least I make them come in to see me if they want to run a plan past me but I am v strict about not engaging in lengthy discussions of said plans.

I feel like the phrase 'good enough' is confusing people. It means 'good enough to be an effective teacher who allows the students to reach their potential', not 'good enough that no one actually notices and complains'. I feel like lots of people in lots of jobs do aim for 'good enough' - for instance, I would say my GP is 'good enough' - they've never failed to give me appropriate treatment and they're kind and friendly when I see them - but I wouldn't say they go above and beyond. And that's fine. Because good enough is just that - good enough.

I haven't read any post that brags. I have read posts from people giving advice about how to cope in a job that has unlimited demands and expectations.

Do you genuinely believe that every surgeon aims at brilliance whenever they make and incision or do a suture? That every GP tries to write perfect notes and choose the absolute best drug for that patient? Newsflash: no one can aim at excellence at every aspect of their job. It is physically and emotionally impossible to do your best all the time. If you do try and do that there is only one place you are going and you'll be treated by a knackered psychiatrist who is doing a good enough job.

I have a policy of not looking at plans by email, so at least I make them come in to see me if they want to run a plan past me

I used to do this too, and did find it depressing how some students considered my time to be endless (e.g. sending me three or four different iterations of the same plan and expecting detailed commentary on all of them) but that they couldn't possibly be expected to find the time for a ten minute meeting.

Having said that - and hopefully this may appease some of the thread - the vast majority of the students I taught were great and I do miss them now I'm research only!

You're a family unit and you have your husband and children to consider, not just yourself. Sounds like this job is not working for them, and you're 50/50 on it yourself.

New job, or put your hard hat on and turn emails off at 5pm and go home. You think it's not possible but it really is.

I used to do this too, and did find it depressing how some students considered my time to be endless (e.g. sending me three or four different iterations of the same plan and expecting detailed commentary on all of them)

Oh God ... You just reminded me of a student who did this and then came to complain that he got an unsatisfactory mark despite having run his plans past me ...

I too refuse to look at plans by email - they have to come in my office hours. And if I receive an email from a student that would require a long reply, I ask them to come and discuss it in my office hours instead.

New job, or put your hard hat on and turn emails off at 5pm and go home.

Absolutely. Never read or reply to work emails outside of Monday to Friday 9-5.

I think the posts blaming students right now is more annoying than the original comments. And yes, as I have graduated - with a really great degree, I might add - I know how higher education works. I know this is not Primary school, where everyone is hand held every part of the way. So did every person I studied with. But they are paying to learn from you, and its a lot of money. Not only that, but those costs have recently increased. If someone is paying 3x more for something, it's right to expect the service to also be higher - the same as it is with anything else we purchase.

If you aren't able to provide that - and I accept that lecturers are in general not saying they don't want to help more, but that they cannot under their current working conditions, surely that is not the fault of your student, but your employer? Is everyone who aims for 'Just good enough' complaining to their employer? The government? There's a real issue here, I empathise. But your students are not it.

And do you know where I aim for 'Just good enough'? In my paperwork. When I write my post op notes. Not exceptional, but enough that if I ever need to refer to them legally, I can. I aim for much higher than 'good enough' when teaching med students and junior doctors. Even though I could use the same argument that it's up to them to teach themselves. And that my 'main job' is in fact medicine and my patients.