I'm an academic and I've dedicated 5 years of my life to getting here and DH wants me to leave my job....

[Choices123]

Just that really DH hates my job and wants me to leave. I have spent the last 3 years doing a PhD, which I completed early last year with no issues and was extremely lucky to walk straight into a permanent senior lectureship (like gold dust in my sector!). However the strain on universities now and what they expect from their staff is immense (or maybe it is just my institution?!). To do my job well (which is the only I way I want to work) I have to put in 50+ hours a week, often more, and continuously dart from stressful situation to stressful situation. I've seen a number of colleagues go off on long term stress and mental health problems, which sadly then increases the strain on the rest of the team. The thing is I love my job, I absolutely love it, I just don't like the amount of it I am supposed to do on a weekly basis.
Dh, quite rightly I feel, hates it, he feels it is impeding too much on our family time, quality of life and more than anything my emotional state - which impacts on me as a parent etc. He is extremely supportive at home and takes on 80% of the household stuff and children school runs etc. I've tried lowering my work load, seeking support from management etc and all to no avail. I'm expected to teach a ridiculous number of hours (with all the prep, assessment and marking that comes with that), oversee students well-being, provide students with one to one support, carry out high level research, generate income, publish high level academic articles, oh and of course write a book or two on the way.... Just not sure where to turn - stick it out and hope it gets easier, or go back to the career I had where I was on equal money, and closed my inbox down at 5pm each day, but I was unhappy!

One thing stuck out for me. You went straight into a permanent senior lectureship out of PhD?

Choosing my words as carefully as I can - now I'm well aware that every subject area is different and that not every well run and well regarded dept is within an equally well regarded uni, but is this an institution within which you'd ideally see your future? Because in my experience, the only colleagues who have 'achieved' such posts at early career points have done so only because the institutions are quite frankly ones which are way below par.

A friend had what sounds like a quite similar situation. She was, on top of acres of pointless admin, expected to teach a workload more akin to that of the FE collage the 'university' used to be five years ago and which most of the lecturers still followed, as few of them had phds and didn't actually get the idea of research-led teaching at all. Naturally there was a complete lack of support for grant applications etc. She spent a year completely stressed until realising the whole place was a hiding to nothing and concentrated on applying elsewhere for a lower band lectureship in a better institution, which she now has. Still full on, and tenure track, but she teaches a reasonable workload and has a level of support in reasearch terms. Her 'senior' post equated to fish gasping for air in a non-existent pond.

OP if you recognise this situation, perhaps applying for other posts may be a start. Depending on your institution, there's a good chance that all this 'senior post' is doing is messing up your early years research.

I have learnt to concentrate all my energy in my research and to aim for 'just good enough' with teaching and admin.

Good advice for the lecturer/academic but slightly poor value for the students paying £9K a year in fees!

Sorry - that is not very helpful to OP, but it does demonstrate that the job description is flawed, if it is impossible to do all the tasks properly in the time allotted. Back to the management I think.

It's not unreasonable for your DH to expect you to be able to do what you ought to as a parent. If you are the main breadwinner then sure it's reasonable for him to pick up the slack. But if he is working too and earning more than you then you are just being selfish.

lots of good advice on here.

Check the workload model - you may be overloaded because you have said yes to often.

TELL someone your workload is unsustainable (because it is! - 70 hours is double what you are being paid for, and bare in mind you are likely getting paid less than 2/3 of what the train driver mentioned below is being paid)

Realise that you can't be perfect at everything and focus on the bits you ENJOY. Life is for living after all...if there aren't any bits you ENJOY then you do indeed need to find a different job, because you can definitely earn more than the £8:50 an hour your currently getting for yourself AND have some fun if you find a different job.

But if he is working too and earning more than you then you are just being selfish.

First of all, RTFOP.

Secondly, even if he was earning more at this stage, the OP could earn more than him in a few years. And if the relationship happened to end, it's a good thing that the OP invests in her career and maintaining her earnings and potential earnings.
Besides, her job satisfaction and career are just as important, regardless of pay.
If anything, I'd say to get good child care and enough cleaning and household support.

No advice other than to say that my dh has always worked long hours, often away from home. We are all used to it but it isn’t easy. Dcs are 28, 26 and 18 and they all live in the UK now while we are in Belgium. They have such a different relationship with him than they do with me. I communicate with them every day (Facebook messenger and it’s not always me writing to them!) whereas he barely communicates with them. Ds1 has even double barrelled his name to include my maiden name because he said he felt that I was much of a parent to him than dh. They would never confide in him, never asked for help with their homework, the list is long. They appreciate he worked hard to provide for them but would rather he had been around more and even when he was around had made more of an effort with them (rather than catching up on paperwork/sleep). I gave up work for a while when ds1 was born (though was studying with the OU) and decided to only go back part time as otherwise they would never have seen either of us.

*much more of a parent

It seems like you aren’t effective. You need to either work a 60 hour week and take weekends off, or you work a 45 hour week and do some work during weekends. Contrary to what others are saying I don’t think a 60 hour week is too much (I do more hours in banking) but your approach to it can be.

Also, your dh’s opinion is just an opinion. I’m sure if he were serious about you doing another job he would have offered to come off part time. As he hasn’t, he clearly expects you to find a comparable salary elsewhere and I’m sorry but a 60 hour week is fairly common in any high profile high prospect job!

Good advice for the lecturer/academic but slightly poor value for the students paying £9K a year in fees!

I disagree. Students go to university to be taught by experts in their field. Regardless of how much bullshit teaching methodology and 'student experience' nonsense the bureaucrats like to heal on this, we academics are - by dint of having PhDs and actively researching - already experts in our field, and can teach this stuff in our sleep. There is so much bullshit about 'excellence' in academia that it's easy to get the impression that literally everything we do has to be excellent. But that's simply not possible, given the demands of the job and the amount of hours in the working day. Something has to give, and the sensible thing to do is to recognize that we can aim for excellence in some aspects of what we do and aim at just good enough for the rest. Some academics do aim for excellence in teaching - its what they most value. But for the rest of us, we came into Academia to do our research. If you're really concerned at students not getting value for money, the real thing to focus on is the overpaid administrators who do little except PR bullshit, at the expense of students.

I hear you OP. The first few years are hellish but it does get easier as others have said once you've built up a bank of material and you will be come more efficient at doing stuff and also gain the confidence to say no.

Last week I had one extra lecture to do and it pushed me over. No time to prep it in daylight hours due to other stuff so was up until 3am writing it, then had to deliver it the next day after 4 hours of other teaching with no break. It isn't a sustainable way to work.

The work planning we do is pretty meaningless. The total hours are averaged out over the year so although you may look low on teaching in one term, you may be well over hours in the other. There is no logic to it. We get 4 hours allocated to prep a lecture from scratch which is not in any way realistic (and varies between depts. in the same faculty).
On my last work planning sheet, I was doing 180% of a job, and that's just the stuff on paper. What I have learnt is that management really don't care if anyone if overworked as long as it gets done by someone. If you are over hours, then see your union.

I've dropped one day a week to spend it with my baby and stopped looking at my email outside office hours. I don't do any work at the weekends unless I have a publishing deadline. I am much, much happier and less stressed.

You need to start prioritising your own career - which will be judged entirely on your research - and saying no to everyone else.

I suspect you could organise work better, no one should be expected to reply to emails etc. when they are not at work. I was in a situation quite similar to yours some years ago when I was a Criminal Defence Solicitor on several duty schemes. At the time my DH was in a job with regular hours and we had two young sons. I coped by having some days that were earmarked as not being around, so If I had no scheduled cases and was not on duty my phone was off (I generally worked about half the weekends) . I also had a good support network, a nanny and a cleaner and someone to exercise my horse for me if I couldn't. That took away a lot of the stress. I worked in supportive team as we were all self employed and in the same boat
and would cover for each other if needed.

which I completed early last year with no issues and was extremely lucky to walk straight into a permanent senior lectureship (like gold dust in my sector!).

That seems amazing to me - people I studied with, DH and his colleagues all had at least 6-7 years of post doc posts - one to two years contracts and often having to move intuitions for them and with Dh often having to relocate in UK. It's was a huge pain trying to stay together and keep both careers going and then often having children before permanent posts as your in early 30's. While I know sectors can differ that sound like a remarkable achievement in itself.

The early years of lecturing were bloody hard for DH - really hard and a lot of work. It happens still now if he gets to teach a new course or one that needs revamping and marking time work moist evening and weekends. In fact Sunday most weeks he'll be working and I get the kids to do their homework but it's much better than the early years as he got a bank of teaching material.

He was told early on in the job it’s three jobs admin, teaching and research and you'll only have time to do one really well, one okay and one just get by with. Not everyone DH has come across chooses research though.

So yes I think it can get easier after the first few years but still fair bit of work DH loves it though and it does have some flexibility – yes he has to be in front of student to lecture but research and admin can be done anytime as long as they are done so he can sometimes see kids in school things. Though even on our week annual holiday he often has at least a few phone calls or e-mails to deal with and yet I have family who go on as if he has school holidays off .

“50 hours a week is pretty normal for a full time job”

Is it? I wouldn’t say so. Obviously it depends what you do. I am office based and the full timers here work 37.5 hours a week, more when it is busy. But it certainly is not the norm to work 50 hours per week every week. I don’t think it is sustainable, especially if you have a family.

“Really? I don’t know a single person in a professional job that works 50hrs a week.”

Neither do I Greendale. I would like to know what people do who have to work 50 hours per week. I don’t know anyone outside the medical profession who works that many hours. But I don’t have any friends who are academics. It sounds like a shit career from a work/life balance point of view from what I have read on here.

Is it? I wouldn’t say so. Obviously it depends what you do. I am office based and the full timers here work 37.5 hours a week, more when it is busy. But it certainly is not the norm to work 50 hours per week every week. I don’t think it is sustainable, especially if you have a family.

I think part of the problem here is that people mean very different things when totting up their working hours. For some people it's just 'time in the office', even though absolutely nobody works nose to the grindstone solidly from the moment they step in until the moment they leave - it's not possible. Am I working now? Yes and no! On my working from home days I often begin and end earlier than I'd get to and leave the office, yet I get more done and probably have more hours of genuinely productive work.

I think hoopjumper has been paying too much attention to US academics. We can't do that here.
I would echo the following:
Don't answer emails immediately. Check if you have a standard turnaround time for students, if not, see about setting one up. Check if you have official "off emails" times and if not go to your Athena Swan people and set them up.
Care less.
Take all your annual leave (no to the PP in cloud cuckoo land, we don't get long holidays). I also take a week or so each year as unpaid parental leave - for a family holiday - I use more days for things like school events or mental health days.
Teaching will get better after year 1 and even better after year 2. Keep collaborations ticking over now.
And get a cleaner, and an ironing service.

I sympathise, but have been in your DH's position and want to offer some perspective.

My DH was on a 3 year probation as a lecturer with PhD and 8 years' post doctoral research/publications under his belt. I secured a promotion and moved 250 miles to be with him. He passed the probation, the kids came along and we decided I would work p/t (easier in my sector) to be there for them so he could hopefully work all hours towards a senior lectureship/professor.

All sounds fine except the university treated him like dirt. He was teaching double the amount recommended by their guidelines, writing courses from scratch, supervising labs, chairing committees etc. However, they moaned that he wasn't doing enough research. So, yes, evenings and weekends were spent reading, writing and researching. I was lucky if he would take a week off because there always something that had to be done. To cap it all, they then put him on the list for redundancy. He took their package and legged it.

Since then, all he has heard is how awful the system is. The students are paying a fortune and in his old department face a succession of "lecturers" whose grasp of English is poor. He has been asked to go back to deliver courses because they cannot find people willing to teach or manage the impossible workload.

I think you have 2 choices: suck it up for the next couple of years - once you have written the lectures, tutorials, labs etc., you can tweak them in successive years and tip the balance more towards your research work, which you can manage at times to suit your family; or you talk to your professional association and get out. I don't think the situation is going to get much better and in my DH's case, he never got what he wanted simply because the powers that be kept moving the goalposts.

I'm sorry this sounds miserable, but I am very angry and bitter about the way the particular institution treated my husband and indeed as a teacher, actively try to put off my students from that university. I'm happy to chat by PM. Good luck

Because in my experience, the only colleagues who have 'achieved' such posts at early career points have done so only because the institutions are quite frankly ones which are way below par.

(Re going into a permanent SL straight from Phd)

Not always - going from a PhD to a permanent academic job at Oxford or Cambridge would also take this form. A few lucky people do that. Those institutions are notoriously demanding on permanent staff though.

Not always - going from a PhD to a permanent academic job at Oxford or Cambridge would also take this form.

That would never be a senior lectureship, though?

Malbec while it does sound like your DH is well off out of it and I know some institutions are worse than others, but I have heard stories like this from partners where I know the academic has found it easier to say no to their DP than their employer. E.g. one at a group event at my generally reasonable institution who complained that her DH's HoD contacted him on Christmas Eve to say a proposal needed to be in when they were back in the office in Jan. I would have told my HoD (even my really awful one) where to get off (or more likely just not answered my email) whereas this bloke told his wife to suck it up.
As I say, care less...

OP from the mention of weekend and evening teaching it sounds like you are at a non-traditional institution. Again this is something to talk to Athena Swan about. Are the uni assuming you'll have handy free childcare for those times? Do you take equivalent time off in the week?

I know someone who went from a postdoc to s Readership - shedloads of good publications.

That would never be a senior lectureship, though?

Yes it would - all the permanent academic posts at ox and cam are SL (or above). Lectureships tend to be temporary posts.

I think this is field-specific, wine - there are definitely permanent lecturers (not senior lecturers) in history (my field) at Cambridge, and that's the level they've made all recent appointments (other than obviously senior ones like professorships) at.

That would never be a senior lectureship, though?

It could be, in a post-92 institution. SL there does not mean the same as SL in pre-92s.

Lisasimpson Possibly! And most of my experience is at Oxford ... but while the permanent positions aren't called SLs (they just don't use that term, and instead use 'University lecturer') that's what they are ... as is evident from the gradual switch to using the American 'associate prof' for ULs. I work in philosophy and had thought that was universal, but I could be wrong.

Yes absolutely possibly oxbridge. But perhaps far more likely to be one of the absolutely dire newer institutions which will and should be the first against the wall when the sector inevitably contracts.

So just wondering whether, as I said, OP recognises her situation in the eg I laid out.

Absolutely, poorer and less research-focused institutions do not have the monopoly on treating staff as full time spoon-feeding teachers who also should be writing books on the weekend. But if OP is finding that this 'senior' post somehow has her covering the research expectation of a senior staff member with the teaching load of an early career junior, then she should maybe be using this post as a springboard for applying for other posts.

Don't get caught up with 'but it's a brilliant opportunity, I have a senior lectureship, how can I leave it.'

My friend agonised but eventually left her utterly shit permanent post within which she literally got NO research done for a 5 year tenure track and she's glad she did.