Girls In Boys Clothes, Rather Than Gender Neutral

[Stardust12]

Hi, I'm just looking for some friendly (please be kind) advice to give a friend. We both have two children, me -a D.D. (5), then a D.S. (2). With my Friend it's the other way around but our kids are the same ages. When my D.D. grew out of her clothes I passed them on apart from a few gender neutral items I kept for my D.S., esp newborn stuff, as we didn't find out what we were having. My friend found out she was having a girl but nearly always puts her in her bro's clothes. A lot of the time they're very faded and stained and quite drab colours but the issue is people mistake her for a boy as she has very short hair and this really upsets my friend. I've tried passing on my D.D.'s clothes to her but she very rarely puts her in them, even though they're all pretty yet practical (pastel and rainbow-coloured, mostly supermarket and Next, tops and leggings). I know people have different tastes but recently we went to a mutual friend's D.S's Christening and we were both Godparents and she put her D.D. in something really scruffy. My Sister has broached the subject with her once but she says her "D.D. doesn't like to wear pink." I don't think I've given her one pink thing! My D.D. loves pink but I know not everyone wants their D.D. in it. Can a just turned 2 year-old express an opinion already like that? Anyway, please don't think I'm being horrible and shallow. I hate to see my friend upset but not sure what to say/do. Please any nice advice would be appreciated.

I would never force my sons to wear anything girly, so they wouldn't wear most of their sisters clothes.

If their father wouldn't wear it, they don't wear it either. It's simple and it works very well.

So girly = bad/inferior/embarrassing?

That attitude is fucking ridiculous.

Frills don’t make dicks fall off, you know.

boon clearly if a child is happy not to be identified as a girl it won't harm her. The harm is to self esteem if people get messages about themselves which they are not happy with.

I'm happy to engage with you but your post to me sounded rather rude. These are my opinions. If you are not interested in what I think fine.

italiangreyhound the harm then comes from the parent forcing a mode of dress on a child that is old enough to want different clothes. This has nothing to do with the OP which is about a baby/young child being misidentified. No harm comes to a baby/young child by being dressed by its parents in a way that may misidentifying them. I did not mean to be rude but your opinions seemed rather garbled to me, just my opinion.

coddiwomble so you are OK forcing your daughters to wear your son's hand me downs but not the other way round? What does your DH's taste in fashion have to do with anything? Do your sons only wear what he wears and your daughters wear what you wear plus your son's hand me downs? What a bizarre arrangement.

Yes, boon, it may come across as garbled! I'm no fan of 'gender'. Of telling children or adults they should like certain things. But I also think it can be upsetting for children to be identified wrongly. For example a little girl always referred to as looking like a boy or vice versa. Compared to a child choosing a style if dress that suits them.

It sounds on this thread like frills and pink are fine for boys bit not for girls! What's that all about?

If boys can wear frills so can girls, surely.

boob I mean.

If their father wouldn't wear it, they don't wear it either

We have some lovely photos of DS dressed as Snow White and Princess Jasmine. His Dad wouldn't wear it, but he was quite happy to (and his finger and toe nails were painted too)

Well there's not a lot my DH won't put on for a laugh!

There is no such thing as boys clothes, just stereotyping from other people. Most important thing here is, is the child happy and comfortable in what they are wearing? If the answer is yes then butt out, if the child wants more pink, unicorns, brand new clothes then maybe back child up when they request this or buy such items as a gift.

If your friend is upset about it just say ‘well then stop dressing her in DS’ old clothes’.

italiangreyhound children can be upset by all sorts of things in their clothing or other people's reaction to their clothing, e.g. I was upset by wooly jumpers when I was little because they were scratchy and bullies will be on items of clothing to make fun of others. The question is not whether there is a kid out there that has been upset by being misidentified but rather whether misidentification is inherently harmful and therefore parents have a duty to clearly gender identify their kids to avoid this harm. I think there is no harm in misidentifying a child and no duty to gender signal through clothing. Children should wear whatever style of clothing they want; nothing wrong with pink and frills whether you are a boy or girl as long as you like pink and frills.

boob yes I agree.

To be clear; I agree apart from the bit in the middle about 'misgendering'; because as I said before I think it may be harmful sometimes. But I would not is ally use the term gender, except in this narrow sense!

But all the rest at the start and end, scratchy jumpers, clothes that may increase chances of a person being a target for bullies etc. I agree with you.

And I do not think we have to signal the sex if our children to anyone. But I do think it can be harmful for children to identified as male when female and female if/when it makes them upset. So perhaps if it happens frequently and if it causes upset. The upset here is to the mum. But I am thinking of the child.

To be clear, no we do not need to signal our child's sex to the world.

This mum is not dressing her child in unisex clothes but in clothes that have belonged to a boy and it is causing confusion for others. If no one cares, fine, IMHO. If a child cares, not fine IMHO. If the mum cares, she needs to re-think!

I think I've said all I want to on this so will stop engaging now. I think we largely agree boon so let's agree to disagree for the rest.

OP I hope you can help your friend. I think she may have post natal or other depression.

it is causing confusion for others

I’d be challenging their confusion. Apart from pants being a slightly different shape for reasons of biology (although my DD’s first pants were boys’ because she liked he pictures on them) there is no such thing as boy or girl clothes. They’re just clothes. Having to dress a child in a particular way because society will otherwise be confused —because they won’t then be able to treat the child differently and in accordance with their sex— is a crock of shit.