To sue the NHS over my birthing experience

[boomitscountginula]

Now before I get flamed to death. I do appreciate my birth story isn't as bad as some but, I now refuse to have another baby unless I can get assurances that this won't happen again, and the only way I can do so is to go private, I think.? It was traumatic to me.

I had a quite easy birth, in terms of how long it took "officially" but I wasn't listened to and have a couple of long lasting injuries I think could of been prevented if they believed I was in labour to begin with.

My birth story: I woke up the day after my due day and had lost my plug over night. Went for a stretch and sweep at lunch, (planned as it was my first) with my midwife said I was 3cm already.

Fabulous, no pain at the minute, now 3cm easy birth.. so I thought.

Went home had a nap, woke up with contractions near tea time. By 9pm they where regularly 6 minutes apart so rang the maternity ward, had a phone assessment and went in.

Got into maternity triage, in absolute agony, had a physical exam and the triage said:

"Your only 3 cm, you need to come home and come back."

I said well as you can see, I am contacting every 6 minutes and less now, the pain is overwhelming and I feel like I need to push.

She tutted and said in all her experience she had never been wrong and I had hours to go, so needed to go home.

I was in bits at this news and crumbled. I never wanted an epidural and chose pethidine (sic) and gas and air. So agreed I would go home but I needed some kind of pain killer, that I could have with my chosen birth plan. I really put my foot down and said I will go home but only if I can get a pain killer stronger that the 2 paracetamol I had taken already.

She said she would find a doctor, but never came back.

Meanwhile I then go into the advanced stages of Labour. Bare in mind I had two paracetamol and my waters haven't broken. It's like trying to birth a gym ball.

I am literally screaming in pain in a side room in maternity triage, pushing and effectively giving birth myself. My partner and my mum (both birth partners) took it in turns to find anyone. But no one came for 45 minutes.

After 45 minutes a junior midwife came in and said "oh my god your in labour".

Me and her literally ran to the deliver ward, where I was given gas and air.

I took a massive gulp of it, and was told off, because I should only take it when I am in pain and contracting..... never mind the two hours I have just been in hospital alone labouring, without a monitor on my baby or any pain relief.

I am still not hooked up to monitor, the only medical intervention is gas and air right now. My waters still haven't broken, 4 minutes later I was given the pethidine. 2 minutes after that I crown, baby in sack. Midwife broke the waters and my son was born. My official record shows that I was in labour for 9 minutes.

I had pain relief 4 minutes into my 9 minute birth and at no point was I on any kind of contraction monitoring machine. Nothing monitoring baby's heartbeat etc etc. I might as well have birthed in the woods.

I also split my right labia in two during the birth. The midwife didn't want to stitch it because it wasn't that bad.. yet I couldn't pee, unless in the bath for 3 weeks, and now that side is an inch longer than the other. Causing me, well you can imagine.

Start to finish I was treated like dirt, I was left labouring in a room alone, I was belittled and injured without proper treatment. And now I am afraid to be pregnant again.

I love the NHS, but they have let me down, massively. I am permanently injured (labia) and mentally scarred. But hate the idea of sueing the NHS on a theoretical level...

Other posters views on ops birth and her response to it are irrelevant. It's a chat forum. The birth trauma association are experts in... Birth trauma and they would say exact opposite of many posters here.

Write to your MP, funding makes it impossible to recruit more midwives as there's not the money to fill vacancies. Perhaps they got caught up dealing with someone more emergent at that moment.

I haven't heard a 'good' first birth story really. I do think some midwives need to think before they open my mouths - prior to my 4lb 11oz PE baby being born one told me I was only in because 'the consultant was mates with my IVF doc' DC had IUGR and amino fluid was going down. Some are downright rude and dismissive, even if they don't think you're in labour, say it nicely fgs. That being said, having been hospitalised for 2-3 weeks prior to having both mine, you do see some women screaming the place down at everything, so I imagine some days the attitude is wrongly laissez-faire. Pain doesn't mean danger and again, giving out pain relief before actual labour has started (which is what they thought) is not routinely done. I'm not sure as both mine were clinically indicated sections but apparently birth usually fucking hurts! I never got a chance to even feel the beginning so I have no comparison.

Despite them saying you were in labour 9 mins but we know the pain last lots longer, from what I've heard the pain goes on a lot lot longer, for some 3 days. Tears happen as does PND. But I can't see anyone's life in danger in your account, and I genuinely think some counselling and an elective c-section on the grounds of how things felt for you personally went. A friend just had this for her second child - no clinical indication for it but she felt more in control.

Suing is for actual physical damages that are directly linked to proven negligence. You actually had (some would say) a short labour which also gave you a tear. Tears happen, a lot. I wouldn't even complain to the hospital now, 6 years on you're kind of past lessons learnt, and in all probability those staff who were dismissive of you have moved on.

AgainPlease

I completely agree with everything you have said.

OP- your experience sounds like pretty much i’ve birth story I have heard. Yes it was crap but to bring it up 4 years later seems pointless. If it was that traumatic you would have done something about it much sooner

I read recently that a very large number of women are put off having a second child because of their awful birth experience. Ive had 3 children i wouldn't say any of the births were nice. I was left laying in blood and naked on the bed after ds3. The midwifes changed shifts and the one who took over didn't want to do anything to help me. I had stitches, legs were wobbly couldn't walk to the shower and she just said perhaps your husband could help. Then wrote in notes i requested a shower and she helped me to it.

greende that's bullshit. A delayed reaction to birth trauma is very common.

This stood out to me in the Midwives documentary. Look how the woman in the pink tshirt is dealt with in the opening 10 mins of the programme.

She is on baby number 5 and arrives at hospital not dialated at all. She's told to go home as she is not on labour but she refuses and is left in the corridor as she wont go home and they wont admit her.

When they finally relent hours later she is found to be 9cm so she made surprisingly progress quickly as you did.

It just goes to show it happens alot.

Sound wont work unless on a laptop. Sound doesnt work on a phone.

Againplease and Bisquick

Againplease I also agree with you.

Op please do get some counselling and a debrief so you can make peace with your experience and put it behind you.

Birthing babies can be very shocking even with 'good' births like yours.

As women, we are woefully under prepared for the reality of this major event and the change it brings to our bodies. Postnatal support is equally lacking, which just makes the whole period unnecessarily stressful.

The statute of limitations says you're too late to sue.

I would write a letter to the hospital, although you should have done it much sooner really.

As others have said, yes it's not great, but many people have similar experiences. Plus I wouldn't feel right taking money from the NHS unless I really really had to.

And Yes get counselling to help you deal with it.

I was sent home at 2cms with a back to back baby. A Consultant Obstetrician who is a family friend went absolutely ballistic, apparently there have been too many babies born at road sides/at home because they are back to back and despite midwives claiming it's a variation of "normal" it can play out very differently. Certainly I got to 10 cms without regular contractions but my Ds was at an interesting angle and going nowhere without surgical assistance.

My experience was horrific for various reasons (certainly Ds's NICU stay was avoidable had I been listened to in the first place) and I gave feedback. As a result of that I got a debrief and was told that my GP could refer me for a chat with an Obstetrician prior to a subsequent pregnancy. Do you think that would help OP?

It sounds like you could do with a debrief. I know three people who have done this and found it extremely helpful.

I'd put any thought of suing out of your mind - the issue seems to be the way you were made to feel during labour, rather than a bad outcome due to negligence.

I had a very similar birth experience with DS1 - 2cm dilated to delivery in a little over an hour, and almost giving birth alone because no-one thought I was that far along and DP had gone to move the car. I didn't have the extreme pain you describe, so that made the whole experience less traumatic, but it certainly could have been calmer if the midwives had been able to predict the speed of the labour. I don't think anyone made any mistakes - it was just one of those unexpected things.

My other two births were similar - one faster and one only slightly slower - but this was expected, so there was no last minute panic. I also had home births and was allowed to be very much in charge of the whole situation.

Have a debrief and see how you feel about it. You can always speak to PALS if the debrief throws up anything that really warrants a formal complaint.

I don't know if this is helpful, but I suggest you do some really good birth preparation classes. I absolutely loved Daisy Birthing. Get as much knowledge as you can and be prepared for every eventuality. If you know what's happening to your body and feel in control you won't panic, and you won't scream.

We are amazing and can do this. Our bodies can do it. But screaming and panicking and anxiety will make it harder as the tension is fighting against your uterus' natural ability to expel the baby.

I didn't have a great experience first time, but 2nd time I was in total control. I was just in a total state of focus and the midwife didn't really have to get involved.

What about a doula and having a Home birth?

I'm so sick of hearing that midwives send labouring women Home. Why don't they believe them? It seems to be that many midwives like the smugness of 'never getting it wrong' - I know so many women that have had fast labours, I don't get why the nhs is so focused on denying labour has started. Fucks me off so much.

Trust your body can do this. Whatever state of the labour ward.

Some of the attitudes towards the nhs on here are cringeworthy "im afraid im morally superior and i would never sue" oh shut up. OP mumsnet is useful sometimes to get information from people about products / experiences etc but there's a lot of sad smug cows who come out of the woodwork online. If your experience doesn't fall below legal standards then that's unfortunate because it should. Being ignored and brushed off by midwives who imo get a kick out of it sometimes, should not be allowed. If you can sue you absolutely should. The nhs failings are not acceptable and this forum probably isn't the best place to come to when you're feeling vulnerable / looking for sane advice. It's a certain type of woman who dominates this chat forum - not the most helpful. I'm disgusted by some of the rude comments you've receieved on here. I wonder if all those who think your experience is normal got a medal for enduring their trauma - no. Because no one cares and the nhs doesn't care either.

@babytalk i think the midwives know exactly what they are doing when they send women home. It's all far too convenient and happens far too often. Feigned ignorance etc. I personally wouldn't trust the majority of them going by some of the experiences my friends have endured on the nhs. Brutal.

Your birth experience was horrendous but suing the NHS would be a terrible thing to do.

They tried to send me home with my third child saying I wasn’t in labor. I stood in the waiting room for 15 minutes having contractions.

I could hear the receptionist saying you know that woman you told to go away well she’s still here and she’s definitely in labor.

My baby was born an hour later. Unfortunately the midwife was pretty inexperienced and so were the doctors who examined me afterwards and I have been left with permanent birth injuries.

Why is suing the NHS a terrible thing to do? It’s like it’s a state religion that can never be challenged.

OP don't let the time thing be the only factor that deters you from raising this as generally it is accepted in maternity that you can claim for three years after the problem is identified. It may have been a year or more down the line before you realised this was actually not going to resolve? Therefore it may be that your claim is accepted.

That being said - I am a midwife and I can see both sides of this. Some women are definitely more sensitive to pain (possibly due to fear and we have a big part to play in that as midwives - I am not saying it is the womens fault at all) and this can make it hard when determining where the best place is for you to be. Eg I have had women shout scream and swear at me when I take blood or give an injection yet others say I am very gentle, I certainly try to be gentle.

Some women genuinely don't seem to be able to tolerate even slight pain, others are able to tolerate significant pain. The vaginal examination only tells us what is happening there and then and cannot predict what will happen next. It really can be hard to make an accurate assessment as to whether a woman is in labour. I have encountered hundreds of women who have presented the way you did, but they delivered days later as this was latent stages. I recently had one arrive in an ambulance pushing and sooo distressed - she was 1cm and when told this she suddenly was fine, I think fear had taken over. She delivered a week later.

If we filled the beds up with these women, where would those in established labour go? There would be nowhere for them. Also evidence shows that women have much better outcomes when they labour at home for as long as possible.

I had a similar experience to you op with my 2nd, I was told that my cervix was closed but I knew I was in labour so I refused to go home. I insisted on staying and ds was born 45 mins later (like you, my dh had to run out to find a midwife). So I do understand where you are coming from.

As for the tears, unfortunately 85%ish of fist time mothers sustain tears, and many will have ongoing issues with them. I had a bad vaginal and perineal tear with my first 13 years ago and still experience some pain. I don't blame the hospital at all for that, unfortunately it is a risk of childbirth.

I definitely think you need to complain though for the way you were treated. This thread depresses me as the way some of you have been spoken to is disgusting. Mind you the stories of doctors shouting at midwives or 'going ballistic' when midwives eg send home someone at 2cm with an op baby (correct action if no other risk factors) or telling a new mum her baby would have died from jaundice if they hadn't intervened (it would be very rare for jaundice to be allowed to get so bad that kernicterus would occur, 1:100,000 is the occurrence in the UK and even of that few, rarely will a baby die) is depressing too, midwives can be treated very badly which sadly then has an impact on the care that they provide.

Why is suing the NHS a terrible thing to do? It’s like it’s a state religion that can never be challenged.

How I agree with this. The more people who challenge the NHS the better otherwise it'll never improve.

If you've suffered a financial loss as a result of NHS negligence, then nothing wrong with suing them. Why should you lose out when it's someone else's fault. If, however, you've not actually lost out financially, then a formal complaint is enough. Either way, the NHS staff who made mistakes need to be brought to task, otherwise improvements will never be made.

Harm was done to my FIL due to a series of hospital blunders. We didn't sue because of misplaced sense of loyalty to the NHS "religion". He needed care and couldn't do loads of things he wanted to, so their errors really changed his life. A few years later he fell ill again, and it came out that there was damage done which we didn't even know about (botched operation that was patched up), but this time he died. We really regret not suing as it would have meant his files would have been properly scrutinised and the botch-up would have been discovered rather than hidden. As a result, I've lost all respect for NHS and wouldn't ever trust them again. There's far too much of a cover-up mentality and that needs to be challenged and changed - if suing them helps to create the attitude change needed, then it's what is needed.

@shhhhhfastasleep nails it.

The NHS is fucked. Women are treated like cattle the moment they get knocked up; shunted along the maternity pathway in a 40 week tick box exercise and reprimanded the moment they don’t do what’s “right”.

Whether that be requesting a CS, choosing to labour at home, requesting an early scan due to previous miscarriages, just wanting to discuss options...DISCUSS and not be dictated to - forget it.

From rough physical treatment in an induction to sharp words on the postnatal Ward about not breastfeeding baby and being forced to do that as well at all costs giving birth now in the UK is becoming an uneceasarily stressful experience unless you have a textbook pregnancy and labour. That’s about 20% of women.

We really are fortunate to live in a country that provides free healthcare at the point of need but the alternative is NOT a “pay or die” structure like the US.

Europe shows us that it’s possible for a truly woman centred maternity system to exist - not one that pays lip service to such a thing but is so financially and structurally fucked that any deviation from the clinical standard results in irritation and panic from the professionals involved.

I am sick of seeing stories like the OPs on here, it’s all over the monthly pregnancy club threads too plus PALS are absolutely ineffectual. I wish I knew the answer but I sympathise fully with the OP wanting to go private: I suspect that’s because it would be nice to have ones voice actually heard.

Good advice by MissDuke.

I'd add my voice to the "complain and ask for debrief rather than sue". The problem with suing is that if it fails it will leave you feeling worse and less listened to than before.

To sue successfully, you need to be able to prove actual damage that you need compensation for. So either actual serious physical damage (that goes beyond the normal vaginal damage that most of us carry around) or serious emotional damage.

The latter is equally important but may be hard to prove if you have not been incapacitated enough to require any kind of MH treatment in the intervening years. How would a panel decide if there is no evidence of incapacitation?

As for the physical damage, it's the causation thing. Given that a very high proportion of women who labour, after having been admitted to labour ward and fully attended by midwives, end up with very similar physical damage, how would you prove to a panel that yours was definitely proved by neglect. And how would you feel if you hadn't been able to prove it?

Basically I have every sympathy but I think you would be running a risk and that would make things worse for you.

The debriefing/counselling route sounds a good one to take though.

Sorry, my sloppy reading- diagnosis of PND might support trauma. Though causation still hard to prove. In any case, I'd put all energy into getting actual support for yourself.

the legend I do agree, and as a midwife I find it so depressing. Roughly two of every three 13 hr shifts I work, I stay an hour or more late and don't get more than one quick break, if any. We are so short staffed, we are on our knees. It is breaking me, and I don't think I will be able to stick at it much longer, like many of my colleagues who have left. Leaving the place even more short staffed..... My trust have tried all sorts of incentives to get more staff but they aren't training enough midwives. Births now are often so complex with so many high risk women coming though, that we just cannot manage on these staffing levels. It really is so depressing. Midwifery is really really hard and stressful, and the vast majority of staff want to do their best, in a broken system.

@missduke really? Why do so many women get ignored, tutted at, chided and sent home when in labour then? If it's such an awfully hard job why do the cruel ones stay for years to gloat and be cruel to women unfortunate enough to be landed in their care? Are you saying that nhs midwives don't get away with treating other women like shit? And it's someone elses fault?