To think that hard work alone does not make you wealthy

[ooohbetty]

I like watching Rich House Poor House and it has got me thinking, a lot of people work hard, hold down jobs, juggle childcare or caring for other relatives, some work long hours and can get help with child care, others don't have childcare but work hard when they can around school hours etc.
Both sets of families in the programme so far seemed to work hard and do their best but are still on the opposite ends of being rich and poor. So if someone says I'm here today with all this wealth because I work hard I think well from where I'm watching the other family seem to be working hard too, I do wonder, if a lot of folk work hard, surely the extra wealth has to come down to the actually vocations they have and possible other sets of circumstances that they have had presented to themselves at the right time in their lives where they can take these opportunities up.
There must be other factors to getting wealthy or am I being daft?

It makes me sad to read so many posts on here from unhappy women stuck in unhappy relationships/are single parents, stuck on benefits and facing Universal Credit. I can't help but think what decisions have you made? Education is available to all, contraception is available to all.

Some people are so bitter of those who are successful, but that person probably chose to move around the country chasing jobs, getting training and qualifications, taking risks - then settling down and starting a family. Once kids arrive opportunities and choices change.

I know it's not a a popular thing to say on here but that's my opinion.

No you're right KathArtic - if you do the whole school, Uni, working long hours and moving around a lot in your 20s, you're better placed to have a baby in your 30s. You're also more likely to be in a committed long-term relationship at that stage of your life.

That's not to say a woman who is a single mum of 3 by the age of 19 can't get back to education and work her way up but it's going to be SO much more difficult for her.

Obviously hard work does not make you wealthy. Think of Andrew Carnegie vs. the miners who worked for him.

onion Really its all about luck. No it's not. He applied for 15 apprenticeships. He was in a job activation program and applying himself in that program. He was the only one who applied himself. The others showed up late and didn't try, showing little interest in working.

He isn't that smart. Certainly not stupid but he had to work very hard to complete his MBA. It took a lot of support from me, a couple of colleagues and friends, including friends of friends to get through the program. He studied 20 hours a week.

His health isn't that great. He is morbidly obese and has issues associated with that.

I am from an abusive background which held me back.

Firsy of all want2be, don't paraphrase me saying it's all about luck, because that's not what I said at all. I said luck has everything to do with your DHs success, because he would not have been able to achieve it without a certain level of brains and good health, even in addition to all his hard work. Which is the truth. Do not delude yourself that this is in any way a matter of opinion.

There are people who do not enjoy a level of health and ability that would allow them to engage in those activities. You don't make an argument against this by restating your points about him working hard, because that doesn't take away from the fundamental point.

That's not to say the information you give about morbid obesity isn't concerning, or possibly evidence of different priorities to a lot of people. Personally if I were that big and well off, I'd be taking some time to stop working and focus on tackling my health issues. But even then, I would still, if I were in your DHs position, have benefitted from an extraordinary stroke of luck by not being born as eg a woman in rural Afghanistan.

So yes, luck is a part of it and it doesn't matter whether you understand that or not.

I watching s2 ep. 2 at the moment - the two working class men neither with qualifications but one built up a chain of restaurants.

Don't patronize me either onion. DH often went without food. He was the kid who had nothing. You want to split hairs about being born in Somalia vs Western world yet DH is the only person from his background who has managed to get an education and has made money honestly with ethics. The other kid who did well distributes porn movies and DH said he thinks the guy is involved in prostitution.

The major reason why DH is obese is because of his upbringing. It's not uncommon and until he wants to change his relationship with food his weight won't change. The concept of him taking time to focus on his weight is just not in his thinking. The other side effect of growing up in poverty is the fear of being poor again.

I'm not patronising you, I'm correcting you. Incidentally, I'm something of an expert on growing up in poverty myself. I, too, have done better, and the basis for this was ability that I did nothing to deserve being born with.

And It's not splitting hairs to bring Somalia into it, it's a huge part of the point! Your DH could have been born with that level of drive and ability (themselves unearned advantages) in so many societies and at so many times in history that would've meant he couldn't do anything with them. And the reason that didn't happen is LUCK. That you think this is splitting hairs is indicative of a total failure in understanding.

OnionShite

I believe that people’s health is related to there situation. If you work hard, strive for success and enjoy what you do you tend to stay healthy.

There is a degree of luck involved in having a decent genetic makeup that gives you intellectual ability. From there hard work, determination, overcoming obstacles and sheer grit does result in a better life, if you want it.
You have to be prepared to forego teen partying for study sometimes, get into a good university to do a useful degree. You might have to struggle through to ensure you come out with both a 2:1 or 1st and suitable work experience to secure a good post university job.
Then you have to gain additional qualifications, working in your own time, work hard at the job to get well thought of, be prepared to move around to take up opportunities. You have to network and build good contacts, entertaining for work purposes. If you do all that you’re likely to be reasonably successful.
With increased wealth you need to invest wisely. Stick with Tesco value goods until you have an investment portfolio. Don’t go on big holidays, manage with an old car between you. Buy property for renting and let someone else pay the mortgage on your second or third home.
In time, you will reap the advantages of hard work and sacrifice. Anyone with a decent brain can do it. It’s not luck, it’s not easy but it is entirely possible.

That is basically bollocks though Kursk.

I mean yes, people's health is related to their situation in some situations, like with industrial injuries for example. You're probably not that happy if you have asbestosis, even if you liked the job you were doing when you contracted it and got paid decently for it. And people can become ill through overwork. That doesn't appear to be what you're getting at here though, and you can work hard without enjoying what you do if you've little opportunity to do much else. A number of examples have been given on this thread.

The fundamental point here, though, is that it's possible to be too ill to work or to work much through no fault of an individual's own. That's a fact. And it's luck. The platitudes about working hard and striving making you healthy simply don't apply for people whose health didn't give them that opportunity in the first place.

You have to be prepared to forego teen partying for study sometimes, get into a good university to do a useful degree. You might have to struggle through to ensure you come out with both a 2:1 or 1st and suitable work experience to secure a good post university job.
Then you have to gain additional qualifications, working in your own time, work hard at the job to get well thought of, be prepared to move around to take up opportunities. You have to network and build good contacts, entertaining for work purposes. If you do all that you’re likely to be reasonably successful.

I'm reasonably successful, certainly as successful as I have any interest in being, and I achieved that without working particularly hard. I got the good degree from a prestigious uni whilst having spent most of my time partying and pissing about, and I now work in a professional role that I like and that allows me to work part time, my priority. It's because I was born academically bright, in a society where I was able to do something with it. That's all.

You're right of course that doing the things you mention can allow a person to build on the natural good fortunate of being clever. But even if you don't, you can still end up with more than plenty of people who work harder than you. I stand as testament to that.

The 'risk' cliche about wealth is rubbish. 80 per cent of new businesses fail.

What is true is that anyone who makes money pats themselves wildly on the back and convinces themselves it was hard work and bravery. I should know, I've done it myself. Luck in my trade of choice was involved, at least a bit of it, as was making that luck work for me too.

I would bet a lot of successful people didnt forgo teen/twenties partying to any higher than average extent.

OnionShite

I agree somewhat, industrial accidents prevent some working, as do hereditary illness. But for the bulk of the hurd who are heathy and able, it seems that those who have the most drive, have the least health issues.

Glad you acknowledge that being well enough to work hard in the first place is itself a matter of luck. I'd like to see some proof on your other suggestion though, speaking as someone with minimal drive and very good health.

Every corpse on Mount Everest was once a highly motivated individual.

There's a reason certain groups in society encourage their children into the professions: job security. Risk is (to a certain extent) only for those who have nothing to lose. I'm sure there's stats showing there are more people who jump from poverty to super wealth than from an upper middle class background to super wealth. But I'd far rather my children have family friendly jobs for life that pay a 'comfortable' salary than they risk everything to be part of the top 0.1%. The top 0.1% is no happier than those who don't need to worry about where the money for basics is coming from (the top 20 %?) but can't afford private education / limitless holidays etc. So be conservative and encourage your children to be engineers or solicitors. On a world scale they will be wealthy.

sweet it wasn't a matter of forgoing it was a matter of it never being an option. DH wasn't studying. He was watching Tv.

kursk A lot of driven people are not very healthy because it's either one of the sacrifices made or they don't know how to be healthy. DH falls into the latter category but plenty of people I have worked with when I was at big4 and IB were extremely unhealthy because they just didn't have time.

(Sweet, I did)
On luck and Somalis - well that's a case in point. I live in one of the most mixed boroughs in London and we have a good few Afghans and Somalis - so are they the lucky ones who made it here and the sensible ones who chose to emigrate (or indeed the unlucky ones - as plenty of people in the west are less happy by the way than people living in mud huts across the planet - these are not simple issues).

Hard work is important but knowing where to apply it is critical. Some people have the luck of parents who will guide them and some people cross paths with some sort of mentor but you'll never be wealthy with hard work alone, it has to be targeted right.

Yanbu. There are plenty of people who have worked hard all their lives, not just those who are in low paid jobs, but those who have worked hard at school, gone to uni, slaved away in high pressure professional careers but still aren’t wealthy cos, at the end of the day, life deals blows of bad luck and people make bad decisions that can reverse years and years of hard work at a stroke. From serious illness to acrimonious divorce, from unfair dismissal to nervous breakdown. As someone said earlier, if you’re born in to money, you have a cushion to fall back on.

Professionals are mostly in the top 5%. There is simply no comparison between their earnings and the top 0.1%.

The reason my parents encouraged me to get a "safe" professional job was because my dad had been made redundant repeatedly from his manual work job in the 80s and we had been close to losing the house a few times. No-one in my family had been a professional before and they thought it was just a good job, they had no idea of the stress.

If you work hard, strive for success and enjoy what you do you tend to stay healthy

Please accept this TOTAL BOLLOCKS OF THE WEEK award.