To think that hard work alone does not make you wealthy

[ooohbetty]

I like watching Rich House Poor House and it has got me thinking, a lot of people work hard, hold down jobs, juggle childcare or caring for other relatives, some work long hours and can get help with child care, others don't have childcare but work hard when they can around school hours etc.
Both sets of families in the programme so far seemed to work hard and do their best but are still on the opposite ends of being rich and poor. So if someone says I'm here today with all this wealth because I work hard I think well from where I'm watching the other family seem to be working hard too, I do wonder, if a lot of folk work hard, surely the extra wealth has to come down to the actually vocations they have and possible other sets of circumstances that they have had presented to themselves at the right time in their lives where they can take these opportunities up.
There must be other factors to getting wealthy or am I being daft?

I hate it when someone says "X is correlated with Y" and someone else comes along and says "no, because here's a person who's X but not Y". Newsflash: that is not how statistics works, and when you're talking about a population of millions, you can list a thousand counterexamples to the trend and still be wasting your time.

I’m aware of how statistics work. The Rooney sarcasm clearly doesn’t come across well in text. ‘‘Twas a joke.

IQ is correlated positively with success only up to 120, which is above average but not that smart.

Being smart alone isn’t enough. You need a basal level of intelligence, hard work PLUS a skill set that’s both in demand and making someone some cash.

Also you can be thick as a brick and successful, or rich. Wayne Rooney seems to do ok.

Rare. Premiership footballers and other sportsmen and women earning such sums are incredibly rare.

Take the bottom 15% of the IQ scale in this country. Then take the top 15%. Then see where the earnings lie.

PoisonousSmurf that’s a ridiculous statement that it’s only about who you know. Are you really saying that all rich or well off people have had a helping hand by someone along the way?!

Clearly that post wasn't finished

Isn’t it about choices as well.

3/4/5 children are
always going to be more expensive

Take the bottom 15% of the IQ scale in this country. Then take the top 15%. Then see where the earnings lie.

Not a great comparison.

Increased IQ only correlated with increased earnings up to 120.

The top 15% I’m sure have higher than the bottom, because the bottom 15% will be very very severely impaired and such impairment is often associated with severe physical issues as well.

The highest earnings are NOT the highest 15% of IQ though. It’s not a linear relationship.

You need a level of intelligence that’s probably smarter than the average bear, coupled with grit, the correct personality type and useful, financially lucrative skills. But you don’t need to be super smart. Being right at the top of the the IQ scale isn’t correlated with higher success in life.

The 'underclass' who have a tiny chance of becoming wealthy lack some or all of these privileges: a mother who was sober during pregnancy, a father who wasn't violent or abusive, long term primary carers, sufficient food, an education that wasn't interrupted, no caring responsibilities.

All of that will have far more of an effect on soneone's ability to succeed than how hard they worked at school. Because if you're not safe at home how can you work hard?

Concentrating on the super rich who claim to come from a poor backgroynd is irrelevent. What really matters is why some people are so badly damaged at an early age that they will struggle to hold down a NMW hob, let alone go to Uni and get a job paying the average salary. And talk of hard work just misses the point.

^yup.

And all the subsequent intervention and productivity and talent lost.

Imagine what we are missing out on by not having a better stab at equality of opportunity. Our next Newton could be out there, and we could miss them.

I've been a higher rate tax earner all my working life for 20 years except for a few years after as a graduate. I have 2 dcs. I own my own home (bought on my own) which is a 4 bed semi in an ok but not desirable town . I have a pension that if im lucky will pay out £9k a year and I will be mortgage free at 58. I've worked so bloody hard all my life and no luxuries as I put away in pension mortgage and childcare fees x2. Yet I live in a mixed social housing estate and life is good but I'm not wealthy and I can't afford overseas holidays. I have no debts but no luxuries. If all I have is this in terms of weath then God knows how everybody else is coping. I'm in the South East. Yes I'm grateful but not rich.

All the people I know who are wealthy are old money, entrepreneurs or bought and sold many properties .

If you want to be rich you have to go beyond just getting a job as there is a ceiling one hits in terms of wealth growth otherwise.

Reading this thread, it strikes me that many hold the opinion that those that are wealthy did so via the bank of mum and dad, family wealth, privilege etc and this simply isn't true.

Whilst many do get wealthy via this route, many also do it alone, starting with nothing and building something for themselves.

Myself and husband fall into the latter. We have no financial support from either family, have worked very hard starting from nothing, and this week are about to take on our 6th employee. We aren't loaded, but we do ok, we have made alot of sacrifices to be in this position.

The belief that those with wealth had it given to them is the very thing that stands in the way of those working a 9-5 from doing the same. You have to believe, you have to try and you have to risk.

It's saddens me that people look at those who have done well for themselves and just think "daddy's money" etc...when you have no idea the craft that has most likely gone into that person's business.

If we're looking at those who are high earners ( as opposed to inheritance) then hard work usually plays a part but it is certainly not enough on its own.

It's supply and demand really. You need to sell a skill, a service or a product that people want and not too many others can provide.

xhannahx

It’s great that you’ve done that. And it’s down to your hard work and graft and risk taking, and no one can take that away from you.

I think what people are trying to say is that where you start CAN be hugely influential. I grew up poor - But... not in a chaotic household, or an abusive household. Some kids have such a bad start that them achieving success is almost impossible. A child who has been abondoned from a young age for example is likely to be very damaged psychologically - that’s not he same as being poor growing up. One is surmountable with hard work and one isn’t.

Or someone who just isn’t able to do a more skilled job, but still works incredibly hard.

Just hard work alone isn’t enough - you need a basic ability level composed of intelligence, psychological stability etc, then you can build on that with hard work, good choices etc.

And even if you do that, life can chuck you a curve ball in the shape of illness or injury.

So it’s not saying that people don’t work hard and that’s why they are poor, it’s acknowledging that there are a number of starting factors that can increase or decrease your chance of success + what happens to you along the way + hard work + choices that dictates how people do.

We are not poor.

We are in the top 8%, the bottom end of that mind, but quite comfortable.

We lived apart Monday to Friday for ten years whilst DH chased the money and the experience.

I was child free and desperately lonely, but our gamble paid off.

So yes hard work and sacrifice can seriously improve your lot in life.

Anatidae - I agree, however you have pretty much described my childhood. Loss of parent at a very young age, emotionally abusive remaining parent, lots of psychological damage, years of counselling...I wanted a better life.

As I said in an earlier post, wealth is reliant on many factors, hard work, sacrifice, a willingness to live a life less secure in the short term, risk and above all luck.

Too many "oh it's because of xyz" yes some people will have obstacles which simply cannot be moved, but the large majority, with the right mind set can try if they chose to...may not succeed...not everyone does...but try they can.

Cue MN Marxists out en masse

I can't remember who said it but "If hard work equated to wealth then all the women in Africa would be millionaires". Do very true.

It's supply and demand really. You need to sell a skill, a service or a product that people want and not too many others can provide.

Exactly. Same with selling on ebay - if you just buy the same as everyone else from the normal wholesalers, you'll just join the rush to the cheapest just to sell the stuff, but if you source something unique or niche you can command your own price due to lack of competition. Same with the workplace - if you have a skill, experience, qualification that few others possess, you'll command a higher wage, but if you can only do the same kind of work that everyone else can do, you're in intense competition and your wage is the lowest.

On a more general point, education is the key to all this. I don't just mean the bog standard state education of learning kings & queens and how chemicals react - but of course formal school qualifications open more doors than if you don't get good grades. I mean "whole life" education, such as making choices, understanding cause & consequence, learning how to work with other people, problem solving, managing money, resilience, healthy lifestyles, etc. The latter can come partially from school, partially from family/upbringing, but a lot can be self taught given the immense resources available today via the internet.

I think to a certain degree you make your own luck.

My DH by every single parameter was disadvantaged; very young parents with no education, rough part of London, council housing, free school meals. He got a scholarship to a well known independent school but his parents declined (partly because they felt they couldn't afford the uniform/extra's and also because he would go somewhere his siblings couldn't). He applied to university but was forced to drop out as his Dad made him get a 'proper job'. He has some exams but they're not that great.

He is now extremely successful, worked his way up in a technical field and now has an international role. He employs graduates but is not one himself.

I think that it's easy to pretend that successful people are lucky. My DH was not born lucky. That ignores the 7 day weeks, sheer determination, intense focus, tenacity and delayed gratification of sticking at something that is really hard. We have four kids and set aside money to send them to private secondary school. It's something we prioritise as DH always said he could have knocked 10 years off his career trajectory with a good education and a degree.

Of course it doesn't. There are people who work incredibly hard in low paid jobs that they have a vocation for. If you work hard in a well paid job you will earn more than in a low paid job. This doesn't make one job more or less valuable to society (some of our most valuable jobs - teaching, nursing etc are not paid what they should be).

As for lower paid work, it can be extremely hard, exhausting and stressful, but in very broad terms lower paid work will not involve higher responsibilities ie there will be a line manager who takes any flak if you cock up.

Not always true. Neither of us are high paid bit I earn more than my DH for a much less responsible job - his line manager is not going to take the flack if he cocks anything up, and he's been responsible for hiring and firing people and left doing the managers job when they're on holiday. A lot of responsibility for not much more than minimum wage.

Of course it isn't all about hard work. I know directors who have a light schedule and don't work half as hard as people in lower paid jobs. Marrying someone rich also helps.

Its not about hard work. Otherwise the richest people in the world would be African women.
Its almost entirely luck/chance and personal qualities such as ambition/perserverance etc.