To be disgusted about the treatment of elderly in hospital?

[happilyeverafta]

I’m currently in hospital and on a orthopedic ward where I’m the only patient under 70 (I believe, I’m 35)

The 5 elderly ladies here have varying degrees of ‘illness’ and as far as I can tell none are suffering from dementia just poorly ladies, bless them.

I arrived here last night and the welcome I received was as if David Beckham (insert other celeb crush if required) had walked into the ward swinging his todger around - they were all saying how great it was to have a ‘youngster’ for once. They also added I wasn’t likely to moan or ask for stuff....

The lady in the bed next to me has horrific facial injuries and covered in bruises. She’s 82. She started chatting to me and we had a lovely conversation (I will admit now I’m a sucker for a Nan type figure!). She’s clearly very sore and scared, nurses told me she’d been beaten up in her own home and thrown down the stairs and “to watch out as she screams out in the night due to be scared/nightmares” all days whilst rolling their eyes at me.

Last night she asked for some water and the nurse shouted at her that “you have half a cup we are busy so stop mythering” she explained Ste was very thirsty. In the end I gave her my hug as she was getting distressed.

This morning she was asleep as the nurses arrived on shift - they came in and shook her & shouted to wake her which frightened her she started crying, I then witnessed them rolling their eyes st her talking about her to each other in front of her abs laughing at her, the whole time she is looking at me saying “I think they think I can’t hear or understand them”

They then got her dressed and she was in pain and asking them to be a bit gentler they came from behind the curtain stating she’d made “another Oscar winning performance” and huffing and puffing. Insinuating she’s making it all up.

They then chat to each other in the middle of the ward about how she’s getting worse, clearly has woke up in a mood etc etc.

Aibu or is this how bad the NHS is now with the treatment of patients?! I’m sat here upset and shocked - I’ve not had any obs done or had anyone come to check on me. To be fair I’m ‘OK’ compared to these ladies but they seem so stretched for staff (1 nurse abs about 3 HCA) that the basic level of care and compassion has gone? Or is this how it is on an orthopedic ward?

Email the hospital CEO you will get a response I’m sure.

It’s abusive & depressing & I’m not surprised as I had a similar experience when I was in hospital.

Complain - I wish I had on reflection. I was just ill at the time & a bit not on it.

My 16 year old was in hospital two weeks ago, on a medical assessment ward, and was the youngest patient by about 70 years. We too witnessed, if not abuse, then real neglect. Lots and lots of ‘sorry, its not my job’ comments, Patients being laid flat, then their food being delivered, and them being unable to sit up. Bells left out of reach, people unable to pour themselves water and no one helping; elderly frail patients being given sandwiches in packets that they couldnt open, which were then taken away. A lovely old lady who had fallen and smashed up her face and broken her arm being told she could go home, despite me having heard her tell the OT and PT she didnt have hot water, so boiled kettles and took them upstairs. I just wanted to shout STOP. I spent my days passing them bells, opening sandwiches and doing up trouser buttons and shoe laces, and I also made sure my able bodied daughter kept an eye on them too, although she got told off for ringing her bell for other people. It was horrendous, and really upsetting.

Unfortunately the wards aren't staffed adequately to give that level of care. It is less ratios than nursery children get.
The choices are stark and upset a lot of nurses. Do you spend time helping with shoelaces or do you give pain relief?

The only reason for not helping sometimes is that it can help maintain function and independence for longer. We know that if we do lots of things to help, we can sometimes make it so that elderly person can no longer look after themselves when they go home, which is terribly sad.

life
That sort of thing though, where the lady couldn't go home because she couldn't manage us a difficult one. In our hospital such things lead to people having their ops cancelled. Even for cancer.

Heartbreaking. Once I was in hospital, was only 17 and generally naive, pretty stupid as well as unwell.

The older woman in the next bed was chatty when I first arrived. No visitors though. She deteriorated over a week during which time she was virtually ignored by the nurses. I even called a nurse for her when her call button was not responded to.

She died quietly in the bed next to me. Her family came in and I heard them heartily thanking the nursing team for all they had done.

I wanted to tell them how she’d been neglected, but I didn’t. Please don’t slate me for not speaking up more - I was very young and also really ill myself.

I personally would never work on an elderly ward. It is nearly always underfunded and understaffed. The work is very heavy and mentally exhausting and pretty thankless. I think they should pay nurses more for working on such wards. No one wants to pay more for the NHS though, so it is what it is. Spanish nurses that I've talked to say in their country the relatives help more in the hospital when there elderly relatives are sick, I think it's normal in other countries for family members to do personal care and help with feeding. When there is only 1 nurse to 10 demanding patients the one to one care people expect won't happen.

iniquity
In every hospital I've worked in every ward (with the exceptions of surgical and ED) had over 70% elderly patients.

Briechon, I wouldn't work on a dedicated elderly ward, it is different from other wards which are also made up of elderly patients, the dedicated ones tend to have the elderly patients that other wards do not want such as the ones with severe dementia.

Same in Italy, iniquity . You are given medical care in hospital, but personal care is given either by relatives or it can be paid for.

Fil was on an orthopaedic ward (he was 90) and every patient there had dementia. What do you do? Yes, they had broken hips/legs/etc, but their needs were not the same and indeed much greater than fitter people.

There really needs to be a huge rethink about care for the elderly as it's only going to get worse. Hospital is not the right place for many people.

I’ve seen this too and it’s horrible. It doesn’t matter how busy you are, there is no excuse for treating elderly patients badly.

When my dad was in hospital it was a particular nationality of nurses who’d been working there for years who did this. They’d shove a water bottle down old men’s mouths to make them drink which resulted in spillage. They’d make lewd remarks like “will you marry me? Can I be your wife?” And I distinctly remember one old man who shouted at her to stop being so condescending and cheap and that he hadn’t lost his marbles.

We didn’t leave our dad alone one night whilst he was admitted and I’d often do night shifts by his bedside and saw some appalling things. In the end I was acting like a helper to all the men in dad’s ward giving them water, taking things out from their bags etc. We’d have some brilliant mid night conversations.

It’s very sad. I’d never trust any family member to stay in hospital alone under the sole care of nurses. Saying that, the HCWs were all brilliant and took care of the patients hygiene and toilet care really nicely without any rude remarks or condescending small talk. They were a brilliant group of people.

This must all differ hospital to hospital.

LifeLaundry how wonderful that you and your daughter helped on the ward. It is upsetting to think what happens when people like you leave. I know many people help out when visiting

When I worked nights there was just me (staff nurse) and a half share of a hca to 16 general surgical patients.

I stopped working on the wards when I crashed my car after doing a 12.5 hr night shift with no break.

Even though I was on my own most of the shift, I was still polite to patients. As I posted earlier, compassion and caring costs nothing.
(Another stupid uncaring nurse here who trained the old way and doesn’t have a degree).

Actually scrap that I left nursing this year, so I should say ex nurse!!

I've heard a lot of horror stories about patients who are elderly or disabled not being taken to the toilet, despite having decent control of the bladders and bowels. They were expected to use incontinence pads, or at most, a commode.

Nobody is saying that nurses who trained before degrees are stupid or useless. I think something like a third of nurses are due to retire in the next 10 years. So statistically speaking, many of the unkind nurses will the ones who didn’t train at university.

That by no means = nurses who trained the old way are rubbish. There are degree educated nurses who are equally poor nurses. But most nurses working today still trained before degrees were mandatory. Most of whom are excellent and educated and who have the degree level education through CPD and years of experience.

I am so glad you complained, OP, and that things have improved since you did. Please don't leave it there, follow it up in writing and if they have one of those 'Patient Feedback' Forms please fill it in and detail what you witnessed on it.

We had a similar experience with my MIL when she was in hospital a couple of years ago. My BIL and SIL raised concerns about her treatment with the nurses but were fobbed off and dismissed out of hand. This led to my SIL informing them that to date they had met the two most reasonable of MIL's children and if things did not improve prior to the youngest child, my Dh, arriving (he was travelling back from a business trip abroad) then they would be dealing with Friday the 13th and in no way would he be fobbed off and dismissed. Things had not improved so Friday 13th was duly unleashed and matters improved drastically.

However, why did it have to come to that? What happens to those who do not have strong people willing to advocate on their behalf?

It came as no surprise to us that the hospital in question was put into 'Special Measures' not long afterwards and is still in them.

The nurses were unkind, contemptuous, disinterested and incompetent, they had no business being nurses and would have been sacked from any other profession for their behaviour. There is no excuse for the behaviour we witnessed, nor the behaviour you describe. A lack of funding does not remove the ability to be compassionate and caring.

The chronic underfunding, understaffing and long hours / night shifts do increase burnout and stress.

I remember one shift after 3 nights in a row, on a heavy ward, I was exhausted and irritable. One elderly lady bless her was being very demanding and nothing was good enough.

I wanted to snap but of course, I bit my tongue, helped her move up the bed and re-arranged her pillows for the 8th time in an hour. It wasn’t her fault at all (of course!) and she didn’t deserve to be snapped at because the ward was a shambles and I had had a bad run of shifts.

I went home and cried as I felt nursing was making me uncaring and miserable. I quit soon after.

I work on a hospital ward, what you describe is totally unacceptable. Please report it to PALS. I would be ashamed if any of my colleagues behaved this way,I can genuinely say that people on my ward are treated with the utmost respect. Yes, some patients are hard going but that's the case with human beings in general and ultimately people all deserve the same level of treatment. Maybe I'm just lucky to work on a good ward/in a good hospital but I can genuinely say that I have never, ever seen somebody being treated this way and would call them out if I did.

Care of the Elderly wards are also very hard places to work and made worse due to lack of staffing. 2 RNs and 2 HCAs for 28 patients all needing commodes and crying out. There are also drugs rounds to be done, IVs, mandatory paperwork - care plans, referrals, discharge plans.

I was always apologising to patients who needed bed changing, commodes etc but I was doing an IV or blood transfusion or whatever. It’s awful when patients aren’t helped immediately but if there’s a medical emergency or a confused and aggressive patient with dementia needs to be calmed down the staff do have to deal with that.

There is never an excuse for poor care or cruelty of course not. But when a patient is scratching / hitting / biting / screaming at you it also isn’t very nice. The lack of staffing and training means that vulnerable patients with dementia then act in an aggressive way which then leads to staff not wanting to nurse on such wards.

It’s such a mess.

I think most people understand about people with dementia. I once tried to help an elderly lady during lunch. Unbeknown to me she was quite violent and tried to claw my face with her extremely long nails. The thing is I was unaware of her problems but the nurses were fully informed. I have also thought that the lack of care, not bringing bedpans and allowing payidnts to soul themselves and their bedding must create much more work than simply helping them in the first place. And really, how hard is it to give patients their drinks or food nearer to them or to help them.

patients to soul

Both pil had/have severe dementia. Having seen them in care home and hospital settings, with others like them, I think it is impossible to meet the needs of dementia patients in a normal hospital setting. Of course there is not excuse for rudeness or cruelty, but some of these people need constant monitoring. In early days of dementia a person can typically be demanding, rude themselves, incontinent and not necessarily bed bound. In fact they can be at full strength. In the later stages of dementia you are trying to treat a - and I don't say this lightly or without experience - a cabbage. Care homes will despatch their patients to hospital and the staff there will have to try to manage a patient who does not know who they are/why they are there and can definitely not feed/wash themselves or use a commode.

There really needs to be a return to geriatric hospitals. Current wards are designed for a fast turnaround, not for a person to linger there for weeks with conditions unrelated to the ward specialism.

Yes abuse awful. It's same in many old folks homes. People don't understand how vulnerable they are until it's too late.

The way they are treating this poor woman is straight out abuse. I would call the hospital switchboard and ask to speak to their adult safeguarding team as a mater of urgency and explain the situation.

Also, why in the fucking world are they discussing her medical history with you? I know you overhear these things but discussing her medical needs and reason for admission with you is a blatant breach of patient confidentiality.

Do what you need to do to protect this woman and the others OP. Those nurses sound vile!

I had the same experience when on a ward.
One elderly lady asked for hours for some help with getting into bed.
She was so tired and sitting in her chair looking distressed.
In the end I dragged my drip stand over to her and helped her into her night clothes and into bed.
The nurses didn't even

....querie how she'd done it, that's not right is it