To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

stargirl that’s admirable, but how do you do that? Literally everything comes wrapped in plastic!

Mine is a company car. Their policy is to only provide diesel cars. I could refuse to have one but most people don't refuse 20% of their salary.
They switched to all diesel because of the incentives. I don't suppose they'll switch again until they next change the entire fleet in another couple of years.

It’s incredibly difficult for a pregnant woman and her toddler, pushchair and changing bag etc to use the tube, so it isn’t a viable option for some people.

@Argeles I was virtually housebound for the first year of my DS's life, due to disability, and when I moved to a flat near a tube station which had a lift, I was absolutely liberated! I was still disabled, and by then I had a toddler in a pushchair, but suddenly was able to get around without hurting my joints!

I agree entirely that some tube stations are just awful, and completely inaccessible for anyone with a pushchair or mobility difficulties, but at many stations it's got a lot better. If you live anywhere near a tube station with a lift, and you want to go somewhere which also has a lift, it's pretty straightforward. TFL has a zoomable map which says which stations are step-free, here: content.tfl.gov.uk/step-free-tube-guide-map.pdf

My DS grew to love the tube with a passion. We had some really special moments on it - including several times when we got on at the end of a line, sat near the front of the tube, and the driver came on, and invited him into the driver cabin for a few minutes before he had to shut the door and drive off without any small children distracting him! (We didn't ask, they invited.) My DS is a teenager now, and still remembers that warmly.

Even an ordinary journey, we read the adverts (I swear it was one of the things that made him such an early reader) he counted the stops, he learned the maps by heart (he LOVED tube maps), he really had a good time. It sounds mad from the perspective of an adult, when a tube journey can be such an exercise in annoyance and grief, but it really did work for him.

Obviously rush hour is never a good idea, but most of the time it's fine. My DS now is very adept at safely navigating public transport as a teenager, and I think a lot of that is due to him spending so much time enjoyably on the tube!

I have a new diesel car, I also have an electric car.

I am clearly confused as to whether I want to save the planet or kill it

dieselKiller you’ve been out of the uk for too long and have taken new attitudes lol.

You seem to have forgotten that it takes A LOT for Britain people to be ‘mad as hell’ about An issue like this.
Fwiw people are as unresponsive about fracking too. And that causes a hell of a lot of environnemental and health issues that have been researched and detailed and proven (in the US for example, that’s why more and more states are banning that practice there...)

My husband drives those big horrible diesel eating lorries.... you know what its actually saving my children's lives. If he didn't work they wouldn't eat so there you go!!!!

anyway on a serious note. As you are so environmentally friendly I assume you are doing your best to lead a zero-waste lifestyle? everything reused or recycled, you don't buy plastic, never bought nappies (which research has shown will not biodegrade in our lifetime....did you know if Henry 8th had worn disposable nappies they would still be in landfill somewhere???), you use reusable san-pro, reusable loo roll, never accept plastic straws in restaurants, always take your reusable cup out with you so you don't need to buy bottled water, etc.

These are what will inevitably kill our planet and our children....

Hmmmmm. We have a diesel car. We bought it (2nd hand) when diesel was a good thing. I am disabled, work pt (very very pt - last week I did about 3 hours - and if I don’t work I don’t get paid); my dh is a musician and earns almost nothing too, our household income is less than 15K including tax credits. How do you propose we replace our car? It’s a necessity to get me around and for dh to load his equipment in.

DH is in his 60s and I shall be next year! No chance of our fortunes changing. Maybe we could be ‘culled’

If we had bought a new one a few years ago we’d have got a few grand off thanks to Government paying people who could afford new cars.

No such luck for us.

So tell me how you would deal with it. Car=necessity remember.

We were encouraged to buy our diesel as it was more efficient, therefore using less fuel. We service it regularly and it passes all the emissions testing required.
Obviously, we would be more than happy to go back to a petrol car now that the government has changed its mind on diesel cars, so if you'd like to just transfer me the money over, I'll go straight to the dealers and buy the greenest petrol car o the market.

Children are really annoying. Why not get something less likely to die?

Running, it has taken 3 years to get to a reasonable point.

Lots of local research and talking to local shops. Bathroom products are the most difficult, tbh.

Lots of zerowaste groups online and Bea Johnson's website is a good starting point. You will be both inspired and demoralised! She lives in Southern CA and get her wine bottles refilled with delicious CA wine! Just refillable gin in my neck of the Scottish woods!

As you are so environmentally friendly I assume you are doing your best to lead a zero-waste lifestyle?

@DontKnowWhatToDo123 this is a ridiculous argument, and one which gets trotted out every time on threads like this. It basically says that unless you are perfect, there is no point in trying to make the world even a little better. And since none of us are perfect, none of us should even try, or raise the issues, and things will just carry on getting even worse.

As I said upthread, I don't judge people who drive diesel any more than I just people who drive any car, because they were sold diesel under false pretences. But the OP isn't wrong - air pollution in cities like London is directly affecting the growth of children's lungs, which is leading to lifelong problems and a shorter lifespan. This isn't some hypothetical, it's a real thing which is happening now. Just in London alone, one-third of nursery schools, nearly 20% of primaries and 18% of secondary schools are in areas where toxic levels of nitrogen dioxide directly threaten children’s health. (And then of course that doesn't take into account where any of these children live, either.)

If you choose to drive a car which makes that problem worse, because it's best for your family - well, I understand that, we all do what we can to cope. But you have to do so in the knowledge that your choices do directly affect the health of other people's children.

I posted about diesel because I wanted to talk about diesel specifically. I think the details of my personal "green credentials" (do I drive, fly, how many kids) would just distract from that.

Not really. And your single-minded focus on diesel and goady posts are putting me off replying. All green-related info is important. It's a bit bonkers campaigning to stop diesel cars if you fly every week, for example!

It seems obvious to me that you've all been sold lies and the air pollution here is literally disgusting. I don't understand why you're not mad as hell about it. The car companies should be buying vehicles back off you. The government should apologize. The public should demand action.

Well, posting a goady and inflammatory post on MN is not the best way to chieve results, is it?

Contact your MP, boycott the car companies that falsified results, etc.

@DontKnowWhatToDo123 my apologies - I have just realised that you don't drive a diesel, your husband does at work. I think this is more complicated (something to do with efficiency on motorways and choosing the lesser of two evils) but I don't know enough about it to comment.

We all do make use of stuff transported from a long way, it's true - but even then, there's a lot of people who are trying to minimise this in their lives.

@TheViceOfReason I've acknowledged that other actions affect the environment. All human actions do. Why do you think that someone who, for example, eats food AND wants to discuss whether people realize that diesel specifically is killing people is a hypocrite? I don't get your point.

Wow, if ever there was an op designed to cause offence, then this is it. Sadly it just comes across as ludicrous.

If you’d written do you understand the health and environmental impacts of driving a diesel, you could have had an intelligent discussion. But no, you chose to post that people driving diesels were child killers.

Sigh

Exactly what DressedCrab says

Goady thread with a twatty username specific to thread, probably best ignored in hindsight

diesel the air pollution here is literally disgusting

In cities and larger towns, yes. In smaller towns and villages (of which there are far more in the UK), it isn't.

A sensible posting would have been "I'm concerned about the levels of air pollution in our cities caused by diesel vehicles" and then a reasonable, sensible discussion would have been possible. Unfortunately you chose to be deliberately inflammatory and goady, resulting in the questions posed to you by others, which you pretty much chose to ignore or deflect.

Which is a shame, because there is a sensible discussion to be had. You're just not capable of having it.

Totally sanctimonious op. However, I'm aware and I do have a diesel car. BUT I only use it at the weekend for motorway driving really, maybe another once during the week, so I do very little city driving. I'm also obsessive about recycling, make my own cleaning products, walk everywhere, invest in green energy funds etc. I do what I can to offset max £40 of diesel per month.

Because fumes have a greater effect on children's lungs/brains?

ShatnersWig but a sensible discussion is being had (in some places) in this thread anyway, whatever the OP posted being goady or not.

The public won’t demand action. They’re far too busy trying to deal with the disgusting and degrading and corrupt PIP system, trying to stretch their tiny earnings to feed their families, and we have all been schooled into inaction over many many years of Governments lack of interest in how we actually have to live day to day.

Some sort of ban will happen when people like you band together, and we, the ones at bottom of the pile will find ourselves just pushed further into the muck.

Don’t worry, energetic young things like you will save the planet. It’ll be at my expense, but hey, I’m already likely to die young!

Given that 44 towns and cities in the UK fail pollution guidelines, op has a point

I don't get why you would join MN/name change and post in a deliberately over the top Goady fashion rather than having an ordinary discussion.

@reachforthestarseveryday If you think about all the issues, there's a danger you'll never deal with any of them.

If you want your advice about contacting MPs etc to sound more genuine, something like "Mumsnet is a great place to start raising awareness, but I hope everyone reading this thread will also contact their MP" would fit the bill. That way you don't need to assume that I think that posting on Mumsnet is all that's necessary.