To think that people that drive diesel cars know that they're killing children

[dieselKiller]

Diesel cars are destroying our towns and villages. The health effects on kids are particularly bad. People must know this by now. So AIBU to think that people who drive diesel cars know that they're killing kids (and everyone really)?

It's like smoking: it's not possible to smoke in public without affecting others' health. This seems to have been accepted by most people. What makes diesel different?

I'll soon have 4 kids. But I justify it by knowing lots of people with none who won't be having any. 😛

Yes yes Annie of course.... everyone could try using their body for what it was designed to do..... run and walk...... and then we could knock the biggest killer obesity on the head too!!!

It's not just the general public driving diesel.

Lorries, vans and other machinery in the building industry are mostly diesel.
We are building everywhere which takes up green spaces and creates air pollution.

Thing is OP. Not everyone shits money, so not everyone is able to replace a car they currently own or are paying off.

As previous posters have said it was government advice a few years back to buy diesel cars. I did and then recently after backlashes similar to OP I changed back to much small petrol car. The reality is that my reasonably new diesel is still driving around plus I have added another car to the world by buying another - some people cannot afford to change their cars - it does not make them irresponsible. I presume OP you are a non meat eating green living environmentally perfect adult who does not drive at all? Meanwhile some people just get by trying to do their best.

I agree entirely, RunningOutOfCharge! I do my best to avoid unnecessary single-use plastics, and just this week have emailed three companies I love, praising their products but suggesting one small thing that might help them move away from single-use. (Eg a local burrito place that I love, which automatically gives you a plastic fork to eat a paper-wrapped burrito that doesn't need any kind of fork at all, never mind a plastic throwaway one. I suggested they at least ask the customers if they wanted a fork, instead of automatically putting a couple in the bag. They wrote back very favourably, possibly because it will save them money too!)

I have a diesel. Surely just driving a car pollutes the air. Also people with three cars in a household will probably churn out more than a household with one car (we own one car)
I think ban cyclists. Fucking so annoying hem holding up the traffic in my small Road Town. The amount of times caused by them forcing people to stop start is incredible...

It’s getting pretty urgent.

Absolutely. Witty dialogue will not change this.

Using VED as a measure of how polluting your car is, is stupid; all that concerns is Co2 emission, nothing else. While reducing Co2 emssions is a good strategy overall, as diesels produce less Co2 and hence the push for people to buy diesels, for localised areas it's not so good, as diesels produce more NOx and particulates, which are harmful to humans.

Loads of people missbought diesels, purely because of low VED, and higher MPG, loads of people doing short jounreys, and less than average mileage that would have been better suited in a petrol car.

The comparison with diesel buses, and lorries is stupid as well, power produced by larger capcity diesel engines far outweigh that of petrol engines, when comparing the fuel consumption of both. It's just not feasible to run large goods and passenger vehicles largescale with petrol engines, so diesel buses and lorries are a necessary evil unfortunately.

Yes, I know, but I don't like children so that's fine ...

First I've heard of it but then I can be truly smug as a non driver who has never owned a car

I'll be honest @dieselKiller - My 5.0L BMW is much worse than our diesel car.

HTH

OP, I drive a diesel it's quite old too (12 years) and I am aware its emissions contributes to health issues. I don't generally drive on busy city residential roads which eases my conscience a bit.

However I'm not in a financial position to change it right now, but when I do I will be opting for petrol, or electric.

Hopefully this is good enough for you.

So when they are walking down the street aged 17 we are killing them, but if they turn 18 the next day it’s fine, they are an adult so it doesn’t matter.....drive on by!

Buses and lorries are also a problem

Our buses run on biogas.

You understand WHY lorries and engines with a lot of power are generally diesel I presume?

Are you a journalist? Or using this as a debate starter for a column or essay?

We will all be driving hybrids in 20 years anyway (or they will be driving us...) it takes time to go through the natural life cycle of car replacement and build up manufacturing of batteries/cars etc. When there’s an affordable mid range hybrid model you can buy for 16k or so people will switch as they replace. To enforce it and waste what’s already here is inefficient. Right now hybrids and electric cars are still in their infancy, still expensive and still niche. It will change.

Car batteries by the way - lots of rare earth metals which generally are mined from places like the Congo (currently the longest running mass casualty conflict on earth I seem to remember? Millions dead/wounded/displaced.) not a very ethical option to be producing billions of our current batteries anyway.

WHOAH, Don't flog your older diesel car just yet!

I read an article recently on the BBC website and was shocked to learn that older Diesel cars could be far less polluting than brand new modern diesels!!

The article discusses the emissions testing of older cars and in particular explains how Nitrogen Oxide is the most dangerous type of emissions in built up areas.

Here's a quote..

“The average real-world [NOx] emissions from our Euro 6 diesels that we've tested is currently 0.399g/km. The (2009 diesel) Skoda tested is about a third less than the current average.”

I ask him if I've understood correctly. My dad's 2009 car emits less NOx than most new diesels they've tested in the past three years?

Yes, a third less, he says. So how come they are legal if the Skoda would not now pass the legal limit?

Here's the tricky bit. The limit on NOx for Euro 6 diesels is 0.08g/km. My dad's Skoda comes in at 0.262g/km.

In other words, more than three times today's limit. But it is still better than most modern diesels.

Here are two examples:

~ The Renault Megane Experience (1461cc) produces 0.991g/km - 12 times the limit (made in 2016, tested in January 2017)

~ The Fiat 500X CityLook Popstar (1598cc) produces 1.153g/km - 14 times the limit (made in 2015, tested in December 2015)

But the worst is the Nissan Qashqai, which last month overtook the Ford Fiesta to become the UK's most registered car (counting diesel and petrol models together).

The Qashqai N-Connecta DCI CVT (1598cc) produces 1.46g of NOx per kilometre. That is more than 18 times Europe's 0.08g/km limit.

So why are diesels managing to pass strict limits in the lab while producing high levels of emissions on the road?

It’s all down to the New European Driving Cycle - the laboratory process in place in Europe since 1997 - says Anup Bandivadekar, passenger vehicles director at the International Council on Clean Transportation.

This puts cars through a test involving steady acceleration, constant speed driving and steady deceleration. It bears no relation to how people actually drive, Bandivadekar says.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/how_toxic_is_your_car_exhaust

There is a difference between being greener, which I’m taking to mean better for the environment, and less polluting for health reasons. CO₂ emissions of a diesel car tend to be lower than those of a petrol one and hence not as bad for the environment but emit more emissions toxic to human health. Newer diesel cars have blutech technology to reduce this. Hence why by a certain year, older cars that do not comply with the euro-6 emissions level will be banned in certain countries.

I would say that if you drive a lot in cities and towns it is better to drive a petrol car but if you do a lot of motorway driving, a newer Diesel engine may be preferable.

Neither are perfect of course and it would be better if public transport were improved. I live in Belgium where taxes are very high so to partially get round this, many receive a company car and Brussels has some of the worse traffic in Europe. I live right next to a metro stop (planned that way as I didn’t want to get a car) but it often takes much longer and there are places you can’t access easily.

You should read ‘The Psychology of Environmental Problems’ by Koger and Winter. Fascinating reading basically answering your question OP why people don’t care that they’re ‘killing people’ but more killing the earth than people really. But still an awesome look at what we’re doing to the planet as a species and why no one seems to care really. (I’m not talking individuals but collectively as humans)
Oh I have a diesel car. I recycle everything to beyond it’s life and am vegan but I still have three children and drive a diesel car d’oh!

Hey OP, I think what you mean is...

Wasn't the government responsible for making everyone's health worse and damaging the environment by incentivising diesel on the basis of factually incorrect environmental information. Shouldn't they be held to account? Have we been missold? Is this another PPI-type situation?

Most normal people won't have time to chemically analyse their emissions and so will go with the advice given by the government (the people we pay to get these things right). So people spend their limited, hard-earned money on what we were told was the best option.

If I had to buy an electric car now, I'd be killing my DD by not being able to afford food/heating/mortgage for the next 5 years.

I bought a diesel car when we were told they were better environmentally , the car tax is low as a result . When I am in a position to buy another , I will buy whatever I can afford that is deemed the most environmentally friendly . Unfortunately I do need a car for my job , it would be impossible to do without one .

Will definitely try and get one with autostop function though , where the engine switches off when stationary , I think that should become mandatory on all cars .

What about planes, 'ey? What about all those frivolous and unnecessary plane journeys these days?

Fluffy, I found this:

“Particulate filters in car exhausts can reduce PM emissions by more than 90%, but they require good operating conditions and regular maintenance. They can also produce more nitrogen dioxide, making diesel one of the main sources of this toxic gas.”

Protecting the environment and people's health is tricky

Especially when car manufacturers lie and lie and lie again. Let's not forget that the "errors" on emission figures weren't some kind of accidental oversight or technical glitch - they were deliberate deceits

I was recently visited our local dealership with a friend, where the salesman was still trying to push a diesel with the assurance that the latest ones really are completely different. He didn't appreciate it when I pointed out they said that last time and asked why anyone should believe it now

flimflaminurjams Yes! It does seem to me like a huge scandal. The government and the car industry have missold diesels. Why aren't people in the UK more upset at being ripped off?

I drive a diesel. But I haven't been on a plane in ten years. I don't tend to buy disposable things, and I generally try to minimise waste.

The 'killing people with pollution' isn't entirely clearcut.