Is this just normal behaviour?? Friend with toddler

[OhPls]

Nc here. Let me start by saying I am 5 years into TTC, 6 IVF's down the line. I am hanging over the edge of a cliff. I wish people understood how gut wrenching this experience is, I can barely breathe let alone continue with life. But we do, somehow.

Post concerns friends of about 15 years. Kind people, and we've kind of grown up together in the sense that we lived together in the past and clocked up lots of memories. I would say they're perhaps not the most empathetic people I know but by no means am I saying that they've ever done anything to deliberately cause upset.

I'm so sensitive at the moment and feel like I am actually covered in raw unexposed nerve endings at the moment and for the first time in my life feel like I have no real trust in whether I am able to fairly judge behaviour. I am usually extremely well balanced.

We don't see these friends too often mainly because of time but mainly because I am increasingly unable to muster the energy or strength to pretend I'm a 'normal' person who likes socialising. I invited friends' and their nearly 2 year old round on Thursday for lunch and to spend the day. Left it open ended so they could leave when they wanted. Made a big effort to think about allowances for their son (moved all breakables, bought sticker books and crayons for him to play with with, made a different meal for him, etc etc). I know this is the least I should do but what I mean is that I understand that kids are kids.

Anyway, friends arrived and stayed 9 hours. During this time we spoke only of the kid as they told us every second of his life, all the "you know you're a mum when..!!!" Kind of crap which just grinds my gears. Their son was allowed to touch everything in my house and walk around with his shoes on after being in the garden which was muddy. The noise was ear splitting with all the singing along to kids music (why is the music so depressing??????) which was played on my stereo. I made references to our infertility as a tongue in cheek joke but it was laughed off as if I were joking. Honestly I cannot explain how utterly exhausting it was watching their family show.

I have been increasingly annoyed by this since but I'm not sure why. Part of me thinks in their position I would be sensitive to the fact that my constant baby talk and basically making my friends watch me talk in baby voices to my toddler for 9 hours isn't that interesting? I think I am U but it was so bloody painful and it just went on and on. My q is this: is it normal to expect a visit from friends with a toddler for them to ONLY talk about the toddler????

YANBU

I have friends and relatives with toddlers and they've been to my house and I to theirs before (not for 9 hours though, I'd be sick of the adults never mind the children). Despite being in the midst of toddler rearing they've still managed to talk about other things, remember that I'm a person with my own brain and interests (and that they are too) and that not literally everything in the world revolves around their child. They work and have other hobbies etc rather than being SAHPs so I don't know if that makes a difference.

It's even more shit to have been like this

Posted too soon!

It's even more shit to have been like this when they know you have been trying to have a baby for a long time. I think it's completely understandable and justified that you were upset. But even without that going on, they showed a massive lack of awareness at their behaviour and that this might not be fun for anyone to experience.

Gonna go against the grain here.

OP did you say to your friend it was an open ended invite? She obviously took that to mean you were happy for her to stay all day.

Do you have a no shoes rule in your house? If not, friend probably didn't twig that toddler should have had shoes off.

As for the dents in the dining table that you have sanded out all night, that just blows my mind. If it's soft wood that can get dents in from a toddler banging a fork then it will get other dents and marks just from normal non child use. This smacks of martyrdom.

Honestly, reading between the lines it sounds like you suffered in silence while your oblivious friend made the bulk of conversation. Perhaps she noticed the frosty atmosphere and did her best to lighten the mood by chatting about her child who to her is the most entertaining thing in her life. I say this as a parent, I could talk about DC all day but do realise no one else finds them that fascinating.

Agree with pp making a tongue in cheek comment about infertility is likely to have made her think you're totally fine with it and coping well. If you wanted her support then being "tongue in cheek" is just sarcasm surely?

Much as your friend has been inconsiderate and the visit was upsetting, it could have been made less awful if you had set boundaries in the home and the time spent. I think you desperately need to work on your communication skills and assertiveness.

NRTFT

I have 2 toddlers. A friend of mine has children much older in secondary school. I honestly feel like we have very little in common due to the fact that I don't have a life anymore beyond the toddlers. but when I'm at her house I do my best to listen to her conversation, in between wiping noses, changing nappies, snacks and trying to entertain my toddlers and stop them trashing her house.

If my friend isn't making conversation then I've got nothing except talk of babies and toddlers because that's literally all I'm doing with my life right now. 'I used to have a personality but then I had kids' is my bio on FB! I appreciate that's massively boring for most without toddlers (or even with lol) and upsetting for those ttc but if I was in your house for 9 hours then I would struggle to know how to handle a lot of conversation that wasn't child related. I haven't had a night out, a day off, a hair cut or even a trip to the dentist in 3 years so what else COULD I talk about?

I probably would have declined spending a day with you for exactly this reason but they're your friends so I guess they're trying their best. I'm sorry about your situation OP and even with all that I said I don't think yabu but I don't think they are either.

You sound like a lovely person OP. They were probably really pleased to spend time with you, and even more pleased that you'd been so sweet as to childproof your house and buy toddler entertainments.

You were silly not to mention the things that annoyed you. Shoes especially. And to let them know when it was time for them to leave. Maybe they could have acted better but you could have communicated better so they would realise.

I'd say it's pretty normal behaviour though. Toddlers are pretty full on. If you want to have a normal conversation, I suggest you go out for a few evening drinks (ie deliberately excluding the toddler).

Sorry to hear about your circumstances OP.

I was you a few years ago, we had 4 rounds of ivf and so i can understand your situation and how gut wrenching and soul destroying it is. I cut myself off from friends having babies though as i just couldnt be around them. It is difficult when you have kids to ignore them so maybe she wasnt being entirely insensitive but i do think she could have avoided saying things about being a mum as i would imsgine that would have upset you. I would talk to your friend and explain how you feel, in the hope she will alot more sensitive in the future. Unless you tell her she just wont know. Then maybe going forward try and organise things when it can be just you two? Big hugs hun sounds like you need it xx

'I used to have a personality but then I had kids' is my bio on FB! I appreciate that's massively boring for most without toddlers (or even with lol) and upsetting for those ttc

Wow. 'I know I'm being insensitive and completely self-absorbed, but who cares, right?!'. And this...

I haven't had a night out, a day off, a hair cut or even a trip to the dentist in 3 years so what else COULD I talk about?

Have you ever considered that you could talk about something other than yourself?

I feel for you so much. I remember feeling very like that before I had my DCs, and I have tried to be sensitive since being lucky enough to have them, but I suspect I have failed on many occasions along the line.

Parents of young children are so wrapped up in them they have no idea (I include myself in that). They are probably congratulating themselves "We're such great friends! OhPls is really down so we took DS to see her. How she loved his little antics! He's so adorable, he cheered her right up!"

They don't, and will never, get it.

I remember being angry when, after the horror of Dunblane, the Queen made a statement saying that "as a mother" she really felt for the families. I thought - and still think, actually - "how bloody DARE you imply you don't get how awful this is unless you are a mother."

Even our Own Dear Queen doesn't get it!

YANBU, nine hours is a long time to visit anyone with a 2 year old.

Firstly, you sound very considerate prepping a different meal, buying crayons, moving breakables etc. I have a one year old and a two year old, I would really appreciate it if family/friends did that for me.

I think staying nine hours is way too long. Allowing toddler to wear muddy shoes in house is something I would never do in my own home let alone anyone elses. Playing kiddie music? Really no need. Baby voices is a no no for me anyway.

Your friends sound really indulged with their child BUT they may not even realise they talk endlessly about their child. It is so easy to lose yourself and for your very young children to dominate your life and conversations because they that's exactly what they do. I think you are being sensitive which is completely understandable. Next time I would try and make their visit shorter.

God, these really sound like my Inlaws, I wonder if they are?! Their toddler can do what it likes, when. They ONLY topic of conversation they are capable of is regarding their toddler, they never ask anyone else about their lives etc and they insist on playing bloody toddler music all the time (in my home as well as my car and wherever else they see fit)

YANBU. They sound insensitive and self absorbed and child or no child, there’s no excuse for that. I can’t believe they stayed 9 hours, talk about outstaying your welcome!

Just as a footnote...

As a mum of a one year old and a two year and currently a SAHM despite having a good career, I find I have very little else to talk about because I don't go anywhere, do anything that doesn't involve my children. I can't remember the last time I watched a film, spent a day shopping for myself, went to the gym, did any of the things that were everyday life pre children.

Oh and they talk in squeaky, children’s TV presenter style ‘child’ voices at said toddler all.the.time!! I bet it’s the same people, I shudder to think there are 2 lots of people like this

Yes Ivehadtonamechange, but even if YOU don’t have anything else to talk about, surely you can still find the common decency to ask your friends/ family etc how they are, what have they been up to, hows work, house, life etc etc.

What gets my goat is when parents seem unable to do even this. All they want to talk about is their child and all they expect other people to talk about is their child/ children.

Self absorbed and rude. No excuse.

I can sort of see both sides (although she sounds inconsiderate for the muddy shoes and table damage). We had four rounds of ivf and now have a toddler. Infertility is hell. I found ttc an incredibly difficult time. It affected every element of my life. Now I have a toddler and with a few exceptions I hate visiting other peoples houses. It is incredibly stressful hoping they don't mark something or break something. And really difficult to hold an adult conversation with a toddler demanding my attention.

Your own children are much easier to tolerate than other people's. good luck with your treatment.

I feel like a few posts here are proving my 'children don't make you self-absorbed they just bring it out even more in some people' point! Yes, if you've always just talked endlessly about yourself then that's what you'll talk about it if you have small children. If you have been having normal, equal conversations where you take a genuine interest in other people, though...

After my most recent miscarriage I went through a period of trying to avoid talking about myself in conversation - I was depressed, and couldn't think of anything positive to say. Talking about myself made me feel upset that nothing was changing or happening in my life. So... I talked about other things. The news and things like that, but also just asking lots about other people. It wasn't hard - it shouldn't be hard not to make a conversation entirely about yourself!

I had ivf to have dd. Two full rounds plus a frozen cycle in between. To have been through 6 must be terribly hard. I’m sorry you’re struggling.

What I discovered both before and after becoming a parent is that some friends have very different ideas about parenting from you and you drift away from one another. The ones, who I thought weren’t great parents (eg smoking dope every day in front of them) or who let their kids run riot when I was childless really really upset me.

Your ‘friend’ sounds terribly inconsiderate of the effort you made for her and her child and very disrespectful of your belongings. Damaging your table is awful.

Do what you have to do to make your life ok. And if it means cutting her off, that’s fine. Be kind to yourself. Do things, which give you joy and pleasure until you recover. And delete the video. She sounds about 5 herself.

When you have more strength, it would be kind both to you and to her to tell her why you are so upset. Your feelings and fertility pain don't need to be a secret.

Remain, what a nasty post. OP has a right not to have her table trashed and her carpet muddied just because her so called friends can't manage their little darling. Telling her she needs to work on her assertiveness is outrageous. I think she deserves a medal for having these people in her house at all considering the pain she's in

OP, you do not sound awful at all. It sounds like you went to great trouble to make these people feel welcome in your home, including the toddler. Some people are ridiculously self absorbed and yes, some of them are parents. We have friends with children who come and visit and we have never ever had toddlers grabbing things, muddy shoes on carpets, nursery rhymes on a loop, or non stop kid talk. And now she's sending you tedious and upsetting videos. None of this is 'normal' or stuff that you just have to put up with.

I can hear the pain in your post and I feel for you so much. Like I say, you were a SAINT to consider this visit at all. I think your friends have behaved like selfish entitled bores.

Flower I relish catching up with friends, workmates and listening to them talk about their lives including their work and relationship troubles, it brings me out of my SAHM bubble.

And I ALWAYS ask them how they are, what is happening in their lives etc.

If OP was my friend I wouldn't have stayed for more than 3 hours with my toddlers, I think that's just about long enough for everyone. Tbh I would've tried to arrange a catch up without toddlers in tow so we could chat more and actually enjoy each others company.

You’re not being unfair. It sounds like they have no empathy what so ever. I’ve learned in recent months that some people just simply do not have an empathetic bone in their bodies.
It really doesn’t take a lot of work or effort to show some sensitivity towards other people - I just wish others could see that!
Problem is that you are probably a very caring and empathetic person yourself and if you were in your friends position, you’d be nice enough to ask how she was is, support her and be conscious of saying things like “you know you’re a Mum when...” all of which is very easy, right? Not for everyone apparently!
Some people are only consumed with themselves and their own lives and we only realize this when we’re in a situation like yours.
Best of luck with your TTC journey.
I really, really hope it works out for you

how gut wrenching it is

Even though it was long ago now and not as high tech as IVF (ie ICI), your post reminded me of just how I lived entire months in 2 week cycles, upcoming ovulation and the 2 week wait to pregnancy test.

Hugs.

OP you don't sound like a cow at all. Your friends otoh sound insufferable! Like others I can approach this from both sides - 4 years TTC was bloody awful and that's without IVF. Have 2 under 3 now and still your friends would piss me off. If I were them I'd be so grateful for your hospitality, especially buying stickers and colouring books, that's lovely. I'd look after your floor and your things, and certainly not inflict my toddler on you for longer than 2 hours tops! And none of that "you know you're a mum when" shite. Ugh, 9 hours of that would irritate the hell out of me post DC let alone whilst TTC. You deserve a medal Don't invite them again. Look after yourself

Once watched friends kid tip coke over brand new carpet as indeed did parent who did nothing .Still can see it 10 years later OMG!
Id have said darling your all muddy shall we take shoes off.
I have in or out rule not in and out although if friend is so blind beggars belief.
Their life is the kid by the sound of it.
In future go somewhere where they cant take the kid if it bugs you it bugs you. Hope t works out for you.

It's a combination of you being understandably sensitive and also 9 hrs with someone else's toddler being hell for anyone I think.
The toddler being allowed to put dents in your table is awful but in your home you would have been entitled to take the fork off them or ask them to sit elsewhere.
How much does your friend know about your ivf etc and how you are coping? If they know you are struggling they were spectacularly insensitive but if not you being tongue in cheek about it could make them think you are coping fine.
In future I'd keep meetings with the toddler to catching up for a quick coffee in a neutral place and make longer visits adult only.

Have you ever considered that you could talk about something other than yourself?

Yes I've considered it but then I go a bit brain dead as like I said, I haven't actually been doing anything else for 3 years! It's why I said 'unless the other person was talking, I wouldn't know what to say'. I'm just being honest! I'm not a selfish talker, I just done haven't much else to talk about. You may think that's sad but that's my life at the moment. I was trying to help the OP see things from both sides.

I think a FB bio is supposed to be about yourself?

You don't need to have varied life experience to ask another person about work, family, what they've been up to etc.