Is this just normal behaviour?? Friend with toddler

[OhPls]

Nc here. Let me start by saying I am 5 years into TTC, 6 IVF's down the line. I am hanging over the edge of a cliff. I wish people understood how gut wrenching this experience is, I can barely breathe let alone continue with life. But we do, somehow.

Post concerns friends of about 15 years. Kind people, and we've kind of grown up together in the sense that we lived together in the past and clocked up lots of memories. I would say they're perhaps not the most empathetic people I know but by no means am I saying that they've ever done anything to deliberately cause upset.

I'm so sensitive at the moment and feel like I am actually covered in raw unexposed nerve endings at the moment and for the first time in my life feel like I have no real trust in whether I am able to fairly judge behaviour. I am usually extremely well balanced.

We don't see these friends too often mainly because of time but mainly because I am increasingly unable to muster the energy or strength to pretend I'm a 'normal' person who likes socialising. I invited friends' and their nearly 2 year old round on Thursday for lunch and to spend the day. Left it open ended so they could leave when they wanted. Made a big effort to think about allowances for their son (moved all breakables, bought sticker books and crayons for him to play with with, made a different meal for him, etc etc). I know this is the least I should do but what I mean is that I understand that kids are kids.

Anyway, friends arrived and stayed 9 hours. During this time we spoke only of the kid as they told us every second of his life, all the "you know you're a mum when..!!!" Kind of crap which just grinds my gears. Their son was allowed to touch everything in my house and walk around with his shoes on after being in the garden which was muddy. The noise was ear splitting with all the singing along to kids music (why is the music so depressing??????) which was played on my stereo. I made references to our infertility as a tongue in cheek joke but it was laughed off as if I were joking. Honestly I cannot explain how utterly exhausting it was watching their family show.

I have been increasingly annoyed by this since but I'm not sure why. Part of me thinks in their position I would be sensitive to the fact that my constant baby talk and basically making my friends watch me talk in baby voices to my toddler for 9 hours isn't that interesting? I think I am U but it was so bloody painful and it just went on and on. My q is this: is it normal to expect a visit from friends with a toddler for them to ONLY talk about the toddler????

Yeah, you set yourself up for that one a bit.

Toddlers are toddlers. If you invite one into your house it will act its age from the moment it arrives til the moment it leaves - it's not going to act like a toddler for two hours then switch off or suddenly act like a 6 year old. So maybe don't invite one round, or limit the visit.

If you don't want someone to wear muddy shoes in your house, say so.

If you don't want your infertility made light of (don't blame you) then don't make a joke of it. People should take their lead from you regarding this.

I'm guessing you felt unable to assert yourself for fear of looking like the person without kids who doesn't understand them, but it would have been fine in my book to ask them to take their child's muddy shoes off, and to change the music. They were pretty rude on the face of it to take over the house and stay so long - most 2 yos I have known need a run around in the park to get through a day. I would agree though with the pps saying you've perhaps hidden this a bit too well and put yourself through too much. If you're going to meet them again arrange to do it out somewhere so you're not stuck with them for ages.

Nope you are definitely not being unreasonable here. I couldn't cope with a day like that, and I have 2 children. What was she thinking?!

When I was going through infertility and IVF I found people were generally uninterested(fair enough) but tried to be tactful at least. I have one friend who really inconsiderate and selfish. It upset me, and I backed off massively after it, so although we're still friendly we're not close anymore.

You are definitely not unreasonable - to be like that in anyone else's house is really off. As pps have said, at the toddler stage you really need to be on your toes all the time to make sure stuff like the child grabbing things he shouldn't, trailing dirt and mud in the house, etc, are minimised, and endlessly talking about the kid all the time... I don't know if it's the case, but I'm imagining that if you changed the subject in the chat, they just brought it back to their child (just conjecture though). And for NINE hours! Blimey.

However, if they don't know the extent of the fertility problems they may not have deeply considered the possibility of the painfulness of this situation; otherwise the "you know when you're a mum when..." remark was more than just tactless. They obviously haven't much acuity or sensitivity or they would have been more responsive to your jokey comment as a "many a true word spoken in jest".

When we were struggling to conceive, someone said to us - about a parenting issue - "You don't know what it's like". It wasn't meant to be hurtful (although it was meant to put us in our place as not knowing what we were talking about) but it did sting, because as you say, you are just one raw nerve ending and it all hurts

They sound more generally inconsiderate and also generally boring rather than specifically not giving a shit about you, to be honest.

That's where I think your sensitivity comes in. You've had an awful day with two self-obsessed bores but are (naturally) viewing it through the prism of your current situation.

No it's not normal. If I'd been visiting with my toddler I'd be on the watch for them trashing things or trailing mud - most people would. Simple manners! I'd also relish the opportunity to catch up with you and socialise MYSELF instead of doing what I do endlessly every day, i.e. toddler stuff.

So they are basically boors and also bores - not interested enough in anyone else to engage with you and not self-aware enough to not spend an entire visit boring you about their own lives in minute detail.

Don't invite them again!!

I'm sorry about your situation and I really hope things change

You say that your friends are kind, and that you have a lot of shared memories. No need, then, to write them off.

I'm guessing that they didn't know (or didn't fully understand) what you were going through. They could have thought harder, and been more sensitive - but no-one is perfect. Long ago I realised that if I wanted my friends to be perfect, then I wouldn't have any friends!

So I'm assuming that they didn't really realise there was a particular reason to be tactful, and this is just how they generally behave when they go round to a good friend's house with their child. Lots of us turn pretty annoying, I think, when we are looking after young children. Again, maybe they could have been less annoying (taking off their toddlers shoes, not staying for too long) but they don't sound beyond all hope to me!

I think that you should be kind to yourself, and see them without their toddler, or as a pp suggested meet up somewhere so you can choose how long to stay, and you will hopefully see the parents re-emerge as normal-ish people after a while. If you can, tell them that you are struggling. Let people be kind to you.

You sure she's a friend?.. never would trust a friend like like.kids shoes come off at the door...

Treat not trust

Yanbu but toddlers are hellish. They don’t do anything they’re supposed to do and leave little room for adult conversation.
The dirty shoes thing and you hung everything were massively inconsiderate though.
I think just don’t invite them again and follow
Your instincts... like you say, you’re struggling to socialise and act like everything is normal so just don’t do it. Love after yourself, don’t pretend everything is fine. You’re going through an awful time xxx

9 hours with own toddler is bad enough. Someone else's - no bloody way. She isn't a friend op. ..

I'd find that hard and I'm not suffering with infertility issues. 9 hours of people being over, especially when their toddler is making a mess in your house and you are forced to listen to 'toddler music' would be painful for anyone. And I have two kids and I would absolutely not sit and talk about them to someone for 9 hours because I have enough awareness to know that it would be as boring as hell for the other person (and me actually).

I would say though that it does sound like they didn't understand how much you've been suffering with your infertility issues, especially if they thought you were joking, so it was probably complete lack of social awareness of her part rather than deliberately being insensitive. Next time I'd say 'actually it's a very difficult subject for me as we've been struggling with infertility for 5 years now and it's really getting me down' so she has the understanding that you may not want to talk about kids all the time.

The dirty shoe thing... annoying certainly, but I wouldn't lose a friend over it. Of course, there are many other things going on here, and other reasons why the OP might want to stop seeing these friends for a bit, or see them under different circumstances - but the shoe thing itself is surely not the important thing here. Some people keep their shoes on and think that it is okay for floors to get muddy. My mum is like this and I would never say anything - it's not a big deal.

Sorry that was to laceup

Toddlers are difficult to manage generally. I think most would have taken muddy shoes off in someone else's home. They don't really stop and will just handle anything they can find. It's up to the parents to stop them handling anything they shouldn't touch. It's often easier to keep them occupied by putting either the TV or music and it becomes normal if you're in that zone. So that's normal to me.

It's not normal to visit someone for 9 hours though - that's a bit odd. All I can think is that they enjoyed your company.

Talking only about your dc; it's because you don't do much else when you have them. I have a friend going through IVF and I'm extremely conscious of not just talking about my dc (even though I do little else). I don't think people realise how hard it is for those struggling to conceive. I never realised how hard the process of IVF can be until my friend told me. And I had no idea of the likelihood of success. It sounds to me that they are equally clueless.

So to me I don't think it sounds as though they're being deliberately callous. Just clueless. And I think people with babies/toddlers are in a bit of a zone. I was horrified when my friend changed a really pooey nappy on my living room carpet. But to her at that time, it was normal.

I’m on the fence tbh. Not sure why they stayed for NINE hours, that alone would have driven me mad, and you might have been better drawing the visit to a close much earlier. I have a toddler & a baby at the mo, and there isn’t a lot of room in my life or my head for anything else at the mo, so I don’t have much else to talk about besides what I watched on tv last night (boring) or politics (depressing & contentious). And if someone invited me & my kids somewhere, I wouldn’t expect them to be upset if I talked about them. Also, people are very uncomfortable with talk about people’s difficulties, so if you make a joke about your infertility people will struggle to know how to respond.
I do feel for you, but while I think they were pretty boring house guests and I wouldn’t invite them back while you are struggling emotionally, I don’t think they were unreasonable.

Sounds like a really difficult day for you. Do you think they stayed so long as you'd made such an effort to make them feel welcome and comfortable, so they felt they should stay as long as possible?
But I think you can't really complain about the muddy shoes if you didn't ask them to take the muddy shoes off - perhaps they are so used to having their house trashed that it didn't register? Which would be thoughtless rather than obnoxious behaviour.
Maybe meet them on neutral ground next time. Hope you are feeling ok, I wish you all the best.

Nothing tongue in cheek/funny about struggling to conceive. I don't think it matters HOW the op made 'jokes' about struggling to conceive. I think you'd have to be a bit of a self absorbed twat if you didn't get that emotionally it would be a struggle for those concerned. Clearly women who got pg with little effort who are more likely to be so dismissive. Really sorry op for what you are going through. I don't agree that it is normal that just because you have a toddler you morph into a dull boring cunt. Stop mixing with them, they sound awful. Best of luck ttc op

I can hear your pain from your post, your desperation and distress. Life is fricking unfair. You are doing your absolute best at keeping on keeping on. Sometimes, when you don't have something you really desire life seems to have a perverse sense of humour by rubbing it on your face. It is horrendously hard, it is shit and it is just so random, to seem to have your dreams running in front of you, visible, painfully tempting, but just out of your reach, and every time you stretch and leap forward and think you are just about to touch it... BAM! The rug is pulled from under your feet and you're back at the beginning. It is a battle you never asked or wanted to fight. And then seeing others get so easily what is denied to you for so long. It is no wonder you feel like you feel, and it would be no wonder if you just hated the whole world.

Your friends may very well believe they are being great friends by "letting you enjoy their child". In situations like infertility, incurable illness, death, miscarriage, stillbirth... some people struggle to do or say the right thing. Sometimes there isn't even a right thing, just things that hurt more and things that hurt less.

Keep talking and keep telling us about things that distress and anger you. I want to hear all the things you don't dare to say aloud, all the frustration you keep to yourself, because this is a safe place to do it. This is the place to scream, rage and curse the bloody world for its indifferent cruelty. We are here. We listen. We hurt with you. Never as much as you hurt because that is impossible, but we are all here.

Big, big hugs. I care. I will keep hoping and wishing for you with all my heart. Hoping that luck changes and you get some compensation for all the pain you're going through.

They were being insensitive. However they felt comfortable enough to stay for hours so it sounds like they really like you! And also you may have been super accommodating which they took as you enjoying their company. They may even have thought the kid was helping or distracting you...

I think you have to get better at that art of ending a visit - oh sorry but we are actually Skyping so and so, sorry to kick you out. Or something.

Im also on the fence here OP.

You sound as though you are in an incredibly painful place and i think you need to be more protective of yourself. Rather than hope others are considerate it might be better to build your own limits.

When i had babies i was also dull and consumed with them. There is an underlying tension in the mind of all parents that is completely imperceptible to others. Parents are always worrying about toddler meltdown etc

It is possible they stayed way too long because they felt it would be rude to leave as you dont have kids? Ie. They didnt want to look as though they arent interested ib spending time with you

I am ashamed to say that when spending time with friends going through IVF i truly didnt know wether to mention it or not

If a good friend seemed to be laughing about it herself I might not have pursued the issue - and when you have small children around is it really a good time to talk?

They may have thought you wanted to keep things cheerful and avoid the subject

I look back at some of my own selfish behaviour when I had babies and can imagine i might have been as insensitive.

Would it make you feel better to write your friend an email and say hi sorry if o seemed distant or whatever. But im really traumatised right now

Dont blame them but just lwt them know your pain

I also would categorically not leave visits open-ended when you are in such a painful state.

Even without your circumstances, they were rude and thoughtless.

It is basic good manners not to allow your children to walk mud around someone's house. As for expecting the conversation for the whole day to revolve around their toddler is tedious.
Now, I should add that I do have to check myself to make sure I'm not talking about my own children non stop, but anyone with any sort of social awareness should be doing that. And for a friend who knows what you're going through, no matter how it is brought up, should be more sensitive.

I'm sorry you had to experience that. And I'm sorry for all the apin you're going through.

You're not a cow for feeling like this, and I feel quite annoyed with your "friends" on your behalf. They sound self-centred and totally lacking in sensitivity.

They do sound thick skinned and annoying. But the two year old doesn't really sound that bad for two and nine hours is a very long time to spend in somebody else's house. Just take a step back from them and if you meet let it be for an hour or so for coffee or a quick lunch.

YANBU. They sound unselfaware at best and cruel at worst.

The only people who may enjoy hearing about the minutiae of a kids life are their grandparents. It’s like looking at others holiday pics. Nobody.is.interested.

Bearing in mind you are 5 years into TTC going on and on about parenthood is just a shitty thing to do times a million.

The little boy is being brought up to be as inconsiderate as his parents. What a shame. That must have been a terrible day on so many levels. I think you need to review whether you want these people in your life and if so then don’t invite them to your hiouse.

perhaps their 9 hour kid-fest is a mirror of your own obsession with your fertility? I was in an infertile marriage- husband produced no sperm. It was awful- our mirroer was being part of a very fertile huge Italian family. Very tough. Guess what- I didnt die of being infertile and at a certain point I got sick of feeling so 'woe is me' about it and realised that there are worse things at sea than not producing your own child. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but to me it was a mercy and a life saver to realise I could recover and let go if I wanted to, and move on. I went on to parent a child I met when he was 8 years old- not an official adoption but a definite parenting experience- he is 37 now and still calls me mum. What I am saying is that you don't have to choose to continue living some kind of sad cut off half life because you cant have a baby- you can come back to life and move on and who knows what will come your way.