WHBU ? (Wheelchair vs. Buggy)

[DisabilityIsALifestyleChoice]

(NC'd but old hand here)

DH tends to chat in various discussion groups, and yesterday, in a discussion about roads told someone to fuck off.

Here's the conversation which started around using buses and how everyone should do it to relieve road congestion,

DH:
And wheelchair users can wait all day, and still not get a bus if there are people refusing to move their baby buggies.

POSTER:
What are parents to do if they have a child in a buggy, some shopping
underneath, so it cannot be folded and cannot relinquish their position and get a later bus, because they have to be at school for a particular time to pick up their 5 year-old child?

DH:
That's choice, compared to the necessity to use a wheelchair.

POSTER:
It's not choice if you have to do the shopping so as to have an evening meal, have a young child that you have to bring with you and need to pick up the other child from school. The wheelchair user may well have much more choice, as many can walk short distances and chairs
can fold. In some cases, their journey may be purely frivolous, unlike the example parent.

It was at this point DH suggested the poster "Go f* themselves".

I should add that obviously DH is sensitive to wheelchair users (which is what I am) and tries to be polite where he can (as befits his age, and maturity). But he's fretting now whether he was too abrupt .

I wonder what the vipers of AIBU think ? (For the record, I am 100% on his side, here ...)

unless there was some reason why the wheelchair user was particularly vulnerable then it should be first come first served

They’re in a fucking wheelchair.

I would, and do, campaign for other disabilities too

And yet your priority in this thread has been to try and say that disabled parents who don't use wheelchairs should not be able to use accessible transport. How strange!

In the entire thread, Freudian. Anyway, you do you. I'll just carry on trying to push for accessibility for everyone.

Purple daisies - I know a couple of wheelchair users who would be really offended by your views - specifically they are ex military who are stronger and more physically capable than many non disabled people I know, me included!
Being in a wheelchair does not automatically make your quality of life less than non wheelchair users.

Yes actually I would say "sorry could you move your car please" because I have manners.

That's not really an apology is it? More of a request.

Would you really then appologise to them for wanting to use your own drive?

"It's really kind of you to move your car"

Tricky I fought for wheelchair spaces, not buggy spaces. If you want buggy spaces, get off your arse and campaign for them. But you won't will you, because by the time you get round to having the time and energy to do it, your kids will be out of their buggies...

Lady It has nothing to do with strength etc. It has everything to do with the fact that it's a wheelchair space. One space. The only space and we don't question people about whether they're capable of waiting for the next bus or not, so why should we start questioning wheelchair users about their capabilities when they have ONE space.

It's also about dignity Lady my dd should not under any circumstances be expected to justify her position in the queue or her right to use the WHEELCHAIR SPACE

MissPolly I suspect you yell at the driver to virtue signal and the fact that your selfless act in removing yourself from the bus, even though you don't actually want to isn't acknowledged. That's the problem, isn't it. Nobody is drawing enough attention to how saintly you are.

It's not really that difficult is it... Bus approaches bus stop. Driver stops bus. Driver notices wheel chair first, as he would. Stops bus and pushes for the ramp. I notice wheel chair. I stand up. I DO NOT fold my pram. Driver thinks hey she isn't folding her pram so calls out for me to fold. Instead of having the driver call out why, I let him know I'm going to get off instead. Easier to understand?

Gilead - of course she shouldn’t have to justify her place in the QUE... she should be in the que like everyone else. If the space is taken then she waits for the next bus, just like if the bus is full then the people wait for the next one.
Why does one person get priority over another? Like I said - unless there is a particular vulnerability.

I do think the issue here is the only one wheelchair space - bus companies could have a row of folding seats on the side of the buses with more space for wheelchair / pram users.

Miss Polly, are you paying your bus Fare twice then?

Ladybusdriver it is a wheelchair space. Not a pushchair space. Of course they should bloody move.
Wasnt there a recent court case about this?

Luckily they've introduced a 'hopper fare' in london which means if you get on two buses within an hour of eachother the second one free. That was introduced a year ago. But I've been getting on buses for over 6 years with prams so before yes I would pay twice.

In January the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Paulley v First Bus Group that bus companies must end ‘first come, first served’ policies and do more to cater for wheelchair users.

Lord Neuberger, the President of the Supreme Court said, “Where the driver concludes that the non-wheelchair user’s refusal is unreasonable, it seems to me that it would be unjustifiable for a bus-operating company to have a policy which does not require some further step of the bus driver in any circumstances."

The Equality and Human Rights Commission state: "This will mean that the driver should take further steps to pressurise a non-wheelchair user into making space for wheelchair users rather than just accepting that a non-wheelchair user cannot move. Bus companies should have clear policies in place and give training to drivers to help them to remove any barriers which wheelchair users face.

The court has suggested that the law should be reconsidered in order to provide much needed clarity for bus companies and their customers, and the Commission will be pressing the Government to commit to these changes in the Bus Services Bill."7

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/legal-casework/paulley-v-firstgroup-plc

ladybusdriver is clearly a GF - who would honestly post such a view considering recent legal decisions - not "first come first served" oh and whilst I'm not usually a grammar/spelling pedant but lady - Que is Spanish and not for queue...

I think ladybusdriver could do with some of that training the Supreme Court and EHRC recommends...

Ladybusdriver equality is about giving people equal access. The wheelchair user has only place they can go. The pram user has the rest of the bus. This means it is right that the wheelchair user gets priority.

Ladybusdriver - Being in a wheelchair does not automatically make your quality of life less than non wheelchair users

really?would you like to take some time to think about your ludicrous statement?

@LadyBusDriver Drivers like you are the reason that disabled people have been campaigning about their space on buses. A disabled person shouldn't have to QUEUE for the next bus because someone won't move.

LadyBusDriver

The space is reserved for wheelchair users to redress the imbalance against disabled people.

First-come, first-served preserves the inequality, because parents with buggies have more choices and outnumber wheelchair-users. If it's first-served, wheelchair-users don't get a look-in.

Ladybusdriver you are asking her to justify her position in the queue by stating first come first served unless she has another vulnerability. People in wheelchairs are vulnerable, no matter how strong, how fulfilled their lives, they are vulnerable by dint of the fact that they are having to use a wheelchair. If you think their needs are fully met, do tell me, how many London Underground Stations are fully accessible? How many British Rail Stations are?