This isn’t fair, this is fucking evil.

[MrsWrex]

My wife has had her pip reassessment reduced because of one point.

Her condition hasn’t changed one bit, we have letters from various professionals stating this. Some assessor that knows jack about her condition has stated she has no problems with communication at all because she ‘sounded intelligent’ (yes, that is written in the reply letter, apparently you can’t have autism if you sound intelligent)

You can’t even get a diagnosis of autism without some glaring problems with communication.

Sorry, just needed to vent. Can’t do it at home as dw is stressed enough as it is. I’ve been trying to get her to stop adding up how much this is going to affect us. Dd has been diagnosed with autism too, I just feel terrified for them both in the future.

I’ve called up for a mandatory reconsideration, I am fairly certain we’ve got enough evidence to win a tribunal. This system just seems to be designed to stress us as much as possible, it’s wrong.

If the assessing company had to bear the costs of any successful appeal, I wonder how much difference it would make to the inaccuracy of the reports?

Yes. I've often said this. I think there should be some sort of system where any assessor shown to be lying in the reports, and disproved at MR or appeal stage, should be made liable for fraud. Like a claimant is when they fail to declare something.

I'm sure many will then make sure they do their jobs properly once such a threat hangs over them.

'I think there should be some sort of system where any assessor shown to be lying in the reports, and disproved at MR or appeal stage, should be made liable for fraud. Like a claimant is when they fail to declare something. '

Yes totally and utterly agree with this. If they make mistakes 65% of the time why are they in fact not held to account for their fraudulent reports?

Yes totally and utterly agree with this. If they make mistakes 65% of the time why are they in fact not held to account for their fraudulent reports?

because its not a 'mistake'. Its exactly what they are paid to do. To get the disability benefit numbers down, by any means necessary. I know that sound a bit conspiracy theory...but honestly..if they were paid to do fair assessments, they would have had some kind of sanction by now for the extremely high 'failure' rate.

I'm not religious but sometimes I hope there's a God so the evil fuckers IDSwho set up this system get their just deserts.

Please try not to do Mandatory Reconsideration requests on the phone. There will be no further evidence taken into account and it will almost never be overturned.
Do it in writing. Go through each descriptor that is a problem and spell out how your illness/disability means you cannot carry out this activity. Try and send in GP/consultant reports to support this.
The above poster with the 3 year old child in a specialist nursery - if the nursery can write a report on the extra care your child needs while at nursery it would help you a lot.

Lazymum, I don't think it makes any difference.

Ime, MRs succeed so rarely that they're pretty much just a time-wasting exercise. If you do the MR by phone, you can get to the appeal stage a bit more quickly.

I used to spend a long time drafting MR grounds, but the only ones that succeeded were those where the client was only a couple of points short of success.

After a week where I had 3 successful appeals, where the grounds submitted were identical to those in the MR letter, the client had not provided any additional evidence OR attended the tribunal, I decided not to bother. It made no difference to my outcomes overall.

One of those 3 was a client awarded 0 points at assessment and MR, but awarded enhanced rate of both components on appeal. The tribunal had no more evidence than that which was submitted with her original application.

The system is a bloody lottery, until you get to tribunal, where decisions are made by sensible people.

Ime, MRs succeed so rarely that they're pretty much just a time-wasting exercise. If you do the MR by phone, you can get to the appeal stage a bit more quickly.

Yes. But its also not advisory. Doing it over the phone meanss they'll cherry pick the bits you say and then it'll almost certainly come back as a no. At least if done on paper, you cab sit down, think about it, explain and rationale your arguments clearly and where you should have been awarded points for this descriptor and that descriptor.

Always better to have a paper trail.

I actually think it's a disgrace that people aren't up in arms about the cost of the appeals procedure.

When I went with my cousin her panel was a lawyer, a doctor and a welfare rights woman. How much do they cost to hire each day?

There was something like 14 rooms in the place, all with appeals going on, so that cost times 14 x 5 days a week.

Her wait for the date was EIGHTEEN MONTHS so they are obviously busy!

Surely that whole process likely costs far, far more than the benefits they are denying people, and there is no-one held to account. The tribunal judge in her ESA appeal absolutely went through the DWP guy in attendance for being so rude and bullying. She recommended that the DWP didn't reassess cousin for 2-3 years, but since that isn' binding she restarted the whole process 8 months later. It's a farce.

You are probably right LakieLady. I have seen decisions overturned after the SSCS1 has been sent in with extra evidence and a full appeal looking at each descriptor. i.e.. It didn't need to go to Tribunal.
However, IME the most important thing is to show up at the hearing and have your say. The Judges doing the tribunals seem fair and reasonable. A few decision notices I have seen recently actually refer to the HCP doing a 'too superficial assessment'. Unfortunately, I have dealt with loads of zero to Enhanced in PIP and Zero to Support Group in ESA.

My sisters pip was stopped. When the assessor arrived my nephew let him in. The chap declined a cup of tea offered by nephew because he’d just had one. On the report it stated that her mobility was fine as she’d answered the door and was able to make him a hot drink 🙄

I actually think it's a disgrace that people aren't up in arms about the cost of the appeals procedure.

They won't be as they believe the lie(s) fed to them. That these are all feckless scroungers. You've only got to see the amount of benefit bashing that goes on on some threads where people still think PIP is purely an out of work benefit.

Those who are up in arms about it are the ones campaigning tirelessly to make a difference and are still not being listened to. The link to the thread I posted earlier procrs this where the ex-assessor says they've tried going to the papers to no avail. This is quite common. MPs will do press release after press release and it'll get buried amongst other stuff.

The system is a bloody lottery, until you get to tribunal, where decisions are made by sensible people.

Yes mostly but do be careful still, DWP were sending their own reps in at one point to be on the panel (not unheard of but they clearly can't be acting unbiased)

Yanbu. I lost ds’s dla because he’s made a small improvement in his personal hygiene. Even though he will never be free from autism.

For most of my life I was living in a civilised country that was proud to care for its most vulnerable members.

The principle was that it was better to include a few cheats than to miss any who truly deserved help. The principle my current country chases fericiously is the opposite.

I have always lived in the UK and still do.

I am ashamed.

Well said Jux

I couldn't walk across the room for half the week... To go to the loo or anything but I was declared fit for work. Yep can't walk half the week so was waiting for my partner to come home after work and during breaks (lucky he was only a 20 minutes walk) to feed me and get me to the loo.

Got no help at all from social services or money from anyone because my disability was intermittent. Basically if one day I walked to the shops at the end of the road I would be unable to get out of bed and be in a lot of pain the next. If I ventured further I would take longer to recover.

Lucky for me though I stumbled upon this research about a possible way to kick start recovery. Contacted the researchers and went for it. Turns out pregnancy can help restart recovery and in some cases even start fixing permanent brain injuries. I've been lucky to be able to walk again and not have to deal with that bullshirt but I do know how awful it is dealing with a system designed to kill disabled people or make it look like they are doing something "positive". It's something like 90%of cases are getting turned over at the moment and costing them more than they are saving so it really isn't working... Seriously f&%k the conservatives.

What happens in other countries? How do EU nations look after their vulnerable people? I am beginning to think we don’t deserve to be in the EU.

The Tories are disgraceful to a man - how dare they preside over this farcical process without complaint?

There is a special level of hell reserved for IDS.

I have nothing helpful to add, but just wanted to say that all civilised societies support the vulnerable, and I am ashamed of the current system. I would welcome a higher rate of tax to provide for a decent welfare state.

Yes mostly but do be careful still, DWP were sending their own reps in at one point to be on the panel (not unheard of but they clearly can't be acting unbiased)

They can't be on the panel can they? They don't make up the panel, that's all independant people appointed by the courts/tribunal service.

They can send reps to make their case. The one at my friend's tribunal was very, very, very aggressive. They are sending more and more reps to appeals.

I've read that assessors get a bonus for getting people off dla/ PIP and even when their decisions are overturned at appeal they still get to keep that bonus!

My friend has just had their car taken back following a recent pip assessment. Friend has a spinal injury, autism, palsy and various other physical and mental problems. However, friend can walk more than 10m (albeit in extreme pain) and 'sounds intelligent'. It's shit.

kingsleys post upthread is worth repeating. Please fill in your experiences if you can

There's a Parliamentary investigation into the claims of lies being told by assessors during people’s assessments... people have until November 10th to submit their experience of it. Please consider doing this if you can

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/pip-esa-assessments-17-19/commons-written-submission-form/

www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/work-and-pensions/Easy-read-Call-for-written-submissions-PIP-ESA-Assessments-High-Res.pdf

These accessors who get two weeks training and then get to throw people off their benefits so they can get a bonus. I'd rather starve..... evil bastards.

Hello, my daughter, 8 didn't get DLA for her epilepsy, I'm now out of the time window to ask for a MD, does anyone think it would still be worth doing it?
Thank you

My son is 18 and was diagnosed with Crohns Disease ( a very serious form of Crohns) and he applied for PIP. He was told he would have to go for a Face to Face consultation and I went with him. He received a letter about 10 weeks later to say that he did not qualify, but if he wanted to, he could appeal. He has not done this..

I work for a Firm of Solicitors and part of my job is to submit Forms to the Scottish Legal Aid Board to determine whether or not clients will be entitled to Legal Aid and I am amazed at the number of people who have benefits and PIP (I know PIP is not a benefit). I hate myself for saying this and I know there will be people on here who will dislike me for this too but most of these clients are drug addicts or alcoholics. I watched a television programme not so long ago about the red light area in a certain part of the UK where the Police actually look after the prostitutes to make sure they are safe at night (The name of the programme is Sex, Drugs and ???...Not rock 'n'Roll), and one of the prostitutes was asked about her financial circumstances and even SHE was getting £228 PIP money per month!!!

It disgusts me that my son could not get it and people like this can. Drug addicts, alcoholics and prostitutes CHOOSE what they want to do and how they want to live. My son did not choose to have Crohns. This has been inflicted on him through no fault of his own...
How can they make the decisions on who gets and who doesn't??? Totally baffles me???

OP, if you're still around, ask for a copy of the assessor's report.
The same three 'observations' were used for all of the reasons why dc2 was given no PIP for daily living (but was given the higher rate for mobility - how does that work?)
The report was factually incorrect in places. We've asked for a mandatory reconsideration, but I'm prepared to take it to appeal - dc2 has a severe, life-long disability.