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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Is my girlfriend being unreasonable or the University?

79 replies

Fluffywhitecloud · 25/10/2017 23:20

NM as this is revealing. I have previously posted for advice and would like to keep threads separate.
My girlfriend has got into a situation that has infuriated me. Right now she balances a 30 hr work week with a full time university degree. She's had a few struggles over the last few months with ill health.
She is managing to cope but had a shock earlier this week when a second cousin passed away. She went into shock and it took time to calm her.....this took place in the time she should have been travelling to a university seminar which she obviously wasn't in a fit state to attend.
The university now want a death certificate as evidence but she has said it's too insensitive to ask her extended family and that as she only missed one, non assessed class she will not provide this. She has offered to attend a later class but they rejected this. She has said that she will not harass her cousins family for a copy of the death certificate for her lecturer and that if her absence is more than 5 days she will get a doctors note. the class was not assessed but she has said she will deal with any penalties as she is not supplying it and feels she has done all she can. She emailed to say it was not easily accessible and that she is self certifiying as prr the departmental policy.
I'm glad to say she is getting back to her normal self but is still grieving. Was she being unreasonable or were the university being insensitive? I'm worried about the potential consequences for her

OP posts:

HerSymphonyAndSong · 26/10/2017 06:53

This isn’t a request for an extension, extended authorised absence, or providing evidence for missing a deadline/exam. I work with students on a course that is stricter than most and it would be unusual to request a death certificate in the situation the OP describes

HerSymphonyAndSong · 26/10/2017 06:54

How will she be penalised? Is there an attendance element for the module? She needs to find the relevant part of the module guide or course attendance policy.

RavingRoo · 26/10/2017 06:56

To be honest I find when you work f\t or close to it, the Open University is the only uni that seems to get it when it comes to flexibility (hence why they are the most profitable university probably).

windowSong · 26/10/2017 07:41

She should seek advise from the Students’ Union Advisors.

HotelEuphoria · 26/10/2017 07:46

If you decide tge death certificate if warranted, you can order one from the GRO they are £9.25 or £6 as a PDF and only take a few days.

HeadlessHorsemad · 26/10/2017 08:01

If she provides a certificate, how will the university know it is her relative?

She could order a death certificate of anyone who fits the age/sex/date of death and the university would be none the wiser, surely?

Isabella70 · 26/10/2017 08:11

I'm fairly certain that death records are public

Death certificatest are public and anyone can get a copy.

Larsitter · 26/10/2017 08:15

I haev been ordering death certs (for my family tree) a fair bit. She can order it on line. She will need to urgent service to get it quickly however. The cheaper £9.25 service takes about 6 weeks. She might be able to find other evidence of the death that would do. Even £40 might be worth paying for a certificate to preserve her degree.

namechange1246 · 26/10/2017 08:23

I'm doing an NHS degree - we were told 80% attendance or automatic fail. I have a long term illness with frequent hospital visits so I do worry but they're aware of that.. we were told for bereavement they would ask you to take a funeral card to prove you were close enough!!!

misshannah · 26/10/2017 08:33

I work in HE, if she were to later apply for mitigating circumstance the death cert would need to be supplied if she claimed for the period around the cousin's death. The university are not being insensitive, just following protocol most likely, especially if she is to remain absent for the remainder of the week for example.

Grimbles · 26/10/2017 08:37

Given that you can be kicked out of uni for poor attendance, she is being very silly for not providing evidence that she had a genuine reason and wasn't just skiving.

These days universities are required to keep tabs on attendance and student engagement as these things are reported to bodies such as hesa and there can be penalties for the uni if they don't ensure that the students they have registered are actually attending and are 'genuine'.

Slightlyperturbedowlagain · 26/10/2017 08:41

I think they're being massively unreasonable asking for a death certificate copy unless there's a whole backstory of missed seminars and academic problems.
It may feel they are being unreasonable but most HE establishments have very clear rules about what evidence needs to be provided for particular circumstances, mainly due to past issues with past students. There is one apocryphal story at the uni I work at about a student who once claimed he was not attending for a few weeks because his mother had died, only for his mother to phone his tutor 4 weeks later as she couldn't get hold of him in halls (pre-mobile phones) and was concerned...

HerSymphonyAndSong · 26/10/2017 08:44

Yes but it is unusual to be so strict for a couple of days where the student has informed the tutors and no assessment has been missed, unless there are attendance concerns or visa issues

She needs to establish exactly what she is risking by not supplying what they are asking for. What is the penalty? Is there a grade attached to attendance? Could there be a disciplinary referral? She needs to get hold of the course and module guides to find out

Optimist1 · 26/10/2017 08:44

If she provides a certificate, how will the university know it is her relative?

Exactly.

MarieAntoinettezzz · 26/10/2017 08:46

You can't judge whether a death is 'too far out' or not.
We have no idea that that woman hadn't spend a lot of time playing with her cousin when they were little. We have no idea if they weren't still very close (I know I'm still very close some second degree cousin but not others).
We Laos have no idea of the reason of the death - it could have been very sudden and brutal and triggered a lot of other anxieties (e.g. If it was a suicide).

In effect, how you are affected by the death of a family member depends on a lot of other factors than just being closely related.

OP I think I wouod do my best to appease Uni. Don't het into a war of 'Im right, they are wrong' type of situation. They might be over the top but antagonising them isn't going to help her either. Esp of she needs a bit of leeway later on (maybe because of her ill health or because of her work).
Just help her get a copy of that death certificate and send a nice letter/email explaining the circumstances.
Oh maybe, get her to talk to her tutor for that elective to see what they have done and what she needs to do (I assume she will have got some copy of any information given. Notes from another student etc...)

whiskyowl · 26/10/2017 08:52

The university's absence policies sound ridiculous for an unassessed seminar.

In most places, it's only persistent absence or missing an important exam that requires justification. Most students just email in to say they can't make it, and that's that.

"Semester" is generally used by those UK universities who have followed the frankly ridiculous, new-fangled model of a 2-term year, rather than the 3-terms that have worked for centuries. It creates stupid periods of downtime at times of year when no-one wants them, like fucking January, and periods of business at times of year when people want to be away.

CharlieSierra · 26/10/2017 08:57

we're hoping to get her back to lectures from tomorrow

Presumably she's an adult?

MoistCantaloupe · 26/10/2017 08:59

I had no idea universities did this! When I was there it was 'if you don't turn up, you don't turn up. You're an adult and you're paying and will likely fail if you're not here'. But no repercussions. I believe death certificates are public though.

amusedbush · 26/10/2017 09:14

It's really unlikely they would be so heavy handed about one single incident of non-attendance.

I work in course support in a university. Yes, we would ask for some sort of evidence (death cert, order of service) to cover one instance of absence. If a student misses a mandatory lecture/seminar/tutorial they must provide evidence of why they missed it in order to be marked as excused rather than absent. Two "absent" marks against them in a semester and they will be deemed unqualified to sit the class final and must take it during the resit period, which will show as a second attempt on their transcript.

It does sound harsh but I've heard every excuse you can possibly imagine over the years so we do need an absence to be evidenced.

KimmySchmidt1 · 26/10/2017 09:23

you can't do a full time degree and work 30 hours a week - I think that's obvious to everyone.

On this particular point, i think its in her interests to get the death certificate. How is she actually performing on the degree? Do they know she works 30 hours a week? Its possible they consider her current position untenable and are looking for ways communicate that.

I don't think its relevant who is being unreasonable here - if she wants a degree, she should probably play ball. that seems to me to be the best way to get what she wants.

Degrees are not handed out willy nilly and the university has the right to protect the integrity of what it means to get one from their institution. If they have a problem with chancers missing stuff and then failing, they will no doubt have policies to try and minimise people doing that. Your GF has been caught up in it.

Instead of focussing on whether you should have an Eastenders style barney about it, get her to do the thing which helps her to get a qualification she is working towards.

sunandmoonshine · 26/10/2017 09:24

@Fluffywhitecloud

All the Universities I have ever been associated with would never have asked for a death certificate to 'prove' a family member has died.

And demanding it for missing one seminar sounds bizarre to say the least.

As has been said though, if she is always missing stuff, maybe this is just the straw that broke the camels' back. You say her attendance is OK, but how can you know for sure unless you are always with her?

Doing a 30 hour a week job on top of a degree is utter madness. She can't do her university work properly, whilst working almost full time. Has she looked into the possibility of extra funding or bursaries? If her family is on too high an income for this, why are they not helping her?

Which university is it?

@amusedbush

Sounds ridiculously severe and harsh.

Notanumberuser · 26/10/2017 09:27

My university would have. I had to provide death notice from the paper for the death of a close family member. The lecturer was apologetic.

Also, certain courses have higher standards for attendance than others eg a condoned course will have mandatory professional standard requirement.

amusedbush · 26/10/2017 09:28

Sounds ridiculously severe and harsh.

It is what it is. Clearly the university deemed it necessary to write this into the policy.

Grimbles · 26/10/2017 09:35

You're an adult and you're paying and will likely fail if you're not here'. But no repercussions

No repercussions for the student, but for the uni: course stats which will go to shit the more students who fail it because they didn't attend. Overall retention rate dropping because students are being withdrawn for lack of attendance. Dropping in the league tables.

missperegrinespeculiar · 26/10/2017 09:52

Unfortunately this is standard practice at my University, if you do not want to incur penalties for missing a class then you have to present evidence, a doctor's certificate if unwell, a death certificate if a bereavement (I do think this is insensitive!), but if she sees a University counsellor to say she was distressed etc. and they give her a letter that would generally be accepted (unless there is a back history that makes the University suspicious)

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