To start a thread about things you should not say or do to childless people

[user1485342611]

As someone who can't have children I have sometimes been shocked at how tactless and insensitive some people can be - the latest being a colleague who objects to having to work over Christmas because 'Christmas is about children. Staff with families should get priority'.

I do have a family, it just doesn't include children of my own.

AIBU to be fed up of this kind of stuff and to ask other posters in similar situations to share hurtful acts and words in the hope that it might educate those not in our situation and who don't always think before they speak/act?

Out of interest, kimboho, has coming onto a thread where women have told stories of their most personal heartbreak and pain and calling them 'selfish nobs' made you feel good? Do you think it demonstrates your own kindness and goodwill?

Mothers
Stimulus

That would be Gakadrielsring at 20.48 on 25.10.17

Galadrielsring

It is so unfortunate that some people are choosing to miss the point of this thread.
What has become crystal clear is that those of us who are childless are unwelcome to have an opinion on Mumsnet. We should should shut up and put up with our circumstances and that we are "selfish knobs" for not wanting to work every Christmas.
Incidentally the fertility friends board has a section for parents trying to conceive a second sibling. People on the fertility boards dont yell that its for the childless only!

I'm actually being made to work Christmas this year, not so that my colleague with young children can have the time off, but because he's coming in (he's super ambitious and smug) - which allows my boss to say "Why should you have time off when he voluntarily sacrifices his family time? And YOU don't even have children." Twice the crap.

Oh what a crock of shit. Any other thinking? Someone whose mother has terminal cancer and this is their last Christmas? Someone whose partner is in the forces and being deployed on Boxing Day for a six month tour? Someone who lives alone a few hundred miles from their family and friends so would spend their non-working hours completely alone if they can't travel the day before?

You can't imagine any circumstances in which someone who is not a parent could be equally deserving of a day off a Christmas as someone who must be there to watch their kid open a heap of overpriced commercialised tat and get high on sugar? If you really can't, you didn't get the empathy injection that apparently is supposed to result from having children according to some of the parents on this thread

Agree 100% ^

The irony in the statement about being self centred is astounding.

A little hypothetical question: What if, everyone in a team at work all had children. How would you prioritise then who gets the time off? Would people with younger children get priority? Or people with more children get priority? Either way some will miss out on spending that time with their kids, because someone else feels they’re more entitled.

We can celebrate Xmas on any other day as adults? Surely the actual day doesn’t matter??

Firstly - why should we?
Secondly - pretty sure it matters to Christians given its their religious celebration and not a kiddy’s celebration to them
Lastly - Yes it does matter to most people. Who wants to celebrate Xmas day a week later? It’s called Christmas Day for a reason. Because it’s THAT day.

It’s very patronising to tell someone they need to ‘get on with it’ if they’re a certain age and want kids, because ‘time is running out’. WE KNOW

Tell me about it!

Margaret when I started typing the thread was 20 pages long. I can’t refresh on the mobile site. When I posted, it’s something like 50 pages long. Sorry I didn’t read every one of the posts. And I’m sorry you feel so angry, but not everyone on the thread is really against people who don’t have children either by choice or through circumstances outside of their control.

I don’t know why it’s gotten so centred around Christmas - I don’t actually know anyone IRL who has to work Christmas Day. Clearly this is a massive issue for a lot of people since there is a lot of upset - but I don’t think people with kids need to automatically be prioritised over everyone else. Where I work in general people with caring responsibilities usually tend to have much tighter schedules with limited flexibility. Those of us who can be flexible, either because we don’t have those or because we have someone else who can pick up the slack usually try to be accommodating.

Anyway, this is now descending into a needless bunfight really. If any childless/childfree MNers are reading this many many of us don’t think you have any less right to use this forum than parents. Sorry if a few lone voices make you feel unwelcome! Most of the contributions on here don’t need the contributors to have children any more than they need ovaries in order to be useful and insightful!

Well said OP. I have a close friend who can't have children who hates when people ask.

What has become crystal clear is that those of us who are childless are unwelcome to have an opinion on Mumsnet

It’s a real shame, because there are some of us who are still hoping we’ll get a chance to have children someday if we’re able to and would like to see what real life experiences other parents have and also to understand the experiences of those who haven’t been able to have children to understand what they went through and how they coped with that. Some of us don’t know what the future holds and would like an understanding of all experiences.

Going back to the OP, I think it’s safe to say many people who don’t have children are on the receiving end of insensitive comments from people who do have children. And there are also people who do have children that get insensitive comments from other parents (I’ve actually heard a woman tell another woman that she’ll really know hard work of kids once she’s had more than one??! I mean wtf?).

Nobody really knows what another person has gone through when either trying to have, actually having or deciding not to have children. Innocent comments can be made with no malice, but can be very offensive. I don’t think you have to walk on eggshells around people, but just have a bit more awareness.

Innocent comments can be made with no malice, but can be very offensive. I don’t think you have to walk on eggshells around people, but just have a bit more awareness.

Sums it up beautifully, I think. I wouldn't think it rude to ask someone if they had children, but if the answer was "no", I would leave it there. Or say, neutrally, "I have two daughters" - and then change the subject. Nobody wants to be quizzed on personal details, or to be forced to explain themselves when they may prefer to be private.

An unmarried male friend of mine bemoans the constant question of "Why aren't you married?". As he puts it, there's never going to be a "good" answer to that, be it "My fiancée died" or just "I've never met anyone I wanted to marry". Same principles apply - don't quiz people on personal things which are none of your business.

Browneyes, I apologise if my post was very sharp, but there has been a previous post asking us what we were doing on here as its a site for parents. I agree that there are valuable insights to be gained from people who are parents but the initial point of the thread was to do with empathy and fairness. I have covered when colleagues in my work place needed to leave early and I have covered at Christmas. but Its not exactly welcoming to be described as a selfish knob because you may not want to cover every Christmas.
On a separate note, I dont think comments criticising peoples parenting skills are o.k either. Empathy and understanding should be a two way street. (Not that I am saying that this is the case on this thread) I wish you the best on your journey to conceive and I genuinely hope that you will be blessed with a little one. I am facing one last attempt at IVF and hoping for a miracle.

Zaphod, thank you for your lovely post

“You’re so lucky you don’t have kids” - we’ll actually no, we TTC for years and lost a baby. We’re not lucky, more fucking devestated thanks

kimboho this one's for you.

Sorry you have hangups about your youth but that doesn't make other people 'selfish knobs' as you call them.

I suspect kimboho has flounced.

Why would you be on mumsnet if you don't have kids??

Oh goodness. Not another one.

Why would you be on mumsnet if you don't have kids??

You're not the brightest, are you?

MargaretCavendish

Bless

Well, it’s been interesting coming back to
this thread to catch up. To be fair, it’s in AIBU and not infertility, so it was always going to attract a share of complete and utter arseholes but even so, I’m shocked at some of the views expressed here.

It’s a good thing Christmas is all about kids, and not at all about peace and goodwill, otherwise some posters would have missed the point completely.

Much love to anyone going through infertility. It’s so fucking hard.

I'm finally having a boy/girl after 3 girls/boys.
Get a fucking grip. There are billions of people out there who'd give absolutely anything for one child regardless of the gender.
You can definitely see how jealousy happens

Cherry are you an insensitive arse hole or just ignorant.
I'll go for the first one

Have you got kids? Me no!
Do you want kids? Me yes!
Then why haven’t you got any yet? Me because I suffer from infertility!
Oh have you tried this (wonderfully sounding herbal crap) it worked for my friend! Me no I haven’t but thanks for telling me about it!
Oh have you tried relaxing! I tried for 6 months and thought I was infertile but then I relaxed and suddenly bam I fell pregnant. Me erm 13 years of infertility makes it slightly hard to relax!!
Try thinking of something else!! Then you’ll definitely fall pregnant!! Trust me it hasn’t bloody happened yet and I’ve spent the last f**k knows how many years ‘trying to think of something else’! And the best one said to someone about me by my own mil was ‘she’s too fat to have a baby’! I nearly launched her!! I was seething! I have PCOS!! I don’t sit there shoving crap down my throat all the time!