To want to know whether children are on the cards for us?

[shouldknowbynow]

I don't know whether I'll ever want children and am struggling to visualise my future because of it. The select handful of people I share my feelings with often tell me there's no need to make my mind up yet or that I'll probably change my mind in a few years. I understand, but the uncertainty around children causes me some anxiety. DH and I have both always been "on the fence" about having children of our own. I feel very confident that if I told DH I didn't wish to have children he would be quite content with it being "just us" for the rest of our lives. The ball is firmly in my court, so to speak. For context we are 33, have been married for several years, in good health and have a generally rich and fulfilling life together.

Our indifference towards children makes me want to make the categorical decision not to have any and to plan my life accordingly. Yet again and again I am told by others that one day I will change my mind and that tiny element of uncertainty makes it impossible for me to know how to move forwards. If kids are not on our cards I want to start investing in our future in other ways. I would throw myself into my career, save so we could travel the world, perhaps live in another country and do many of the things that are much easier to do when you don't have DC's dependant on you. I would make a concerted effort to invest more in our relationships with DH's nephews beyond "friendly aunt and uncle" level, as I know they would be the only ones able to visit us when we grow old if we have no DCs of our own.

If kids ARE on our cards, then of course the way I plan ahead would be different. Saving for schools and trust funds instead, living closer to family so that we have a support network, perhaps looking to start a family soon so that my own parents are still alive to meet their grandchildren and can play an active role in their childhood, choosing property in a good catchment area with bedrooms for any children we might have etc.

I can list our reasons for and against it below, but I suppose my AIBU isn't whether or not our reasons for not wanting children at the moment are valid, but whether it's OK for a 33 year old couple to make the decision not to have children when there are still a few years left where we might change our minds?

Reasons for:-

1. Purely selfish. Presuming DH pops his clogs before me it's very likely I won't have anyone to look out for me in my old age. No one to visit me, no one to vet potential residential homes for me or kick up a fuss if I'm mistreated by carers. No familiar faces for company or to share stories and memories with. The last decade or so of my life could be a very lonely one.

1. I would miss out on what other people describe as the "joy" of having children. This is speculative as I can't actually imagine what that joy must feel like, but I do of course accept that if I had children I would love them and take great pride in them (but can you miss something if you've never had it?) DH has two nephews and I love them dearly but am quite ready to hand them back to DSIL at the end of the day.

1. I'd probably make an OK mother. I'm a loving, compassionate and caring person when it comes to DH and my family. I work hard, am active and outdoorsy, relatively financially secure, have a strong family network, am very conscientious and I'm sure if we had children I would throw myself into it 100% and be able to offer them a happy childhood.

Reasons against:-

1. I currently have no maternal instincts.

1. In becoming a good mother I think I would become a worse wife. I have a tendency towards perfectionism and like things done a certain way. I can easily envisage myself getting frustrated and angry with poor DH and undermining him if I feel he isn't parenting "properly". I am aware of what a terrible wife that makes me sound and I so desperately don't want to be that person.

1. Although we are financially secure, to have a child would make things very tight and put pressure on DH to support us if I take a break from work. We could not afford to support any DC's in the same way that our own parents (baby boomers) have supported us. We may not be able to help them buy their first car, pay for expensive extra curricular activities or provide much of a deposit for their first home.

1. Again, selfish. The thought of the parameters of my life becoming so small while the DCs are dependant on me is terrifying.

1. I'm the first person to admit I'm very particular about the state of our house. I like things to be clean and everything in it's place and disruption and mess can really stresses me out. That is NOT the kind of mother I would want to be. I would want to be a relaxed mother who doesn't mind a bit of mess and chaos or a raucaus game, but the mere thought of it sets me on edge, which is very sad.

I would be interested to hear some thoughts, particularly from anyone who made the decision not to have a family and have either regretted it or have gone on to have happy, childless lives.

OP are you an only child? Only reason I ask is I felt the same way until my sister had her first child and suddenly I realised I was going to miss out massively on all the family stuff that was starting to happen with my parents. Experiencing Christmas through a child's eyes again, nativities, enjoying the seasons. I don't know, I think once we get to adulthood we shut our eyes to the world in many ways and having children reopens them. But yep you're right that the house also gets trashed and you don't get a full nights sleep for years.

If I were you I would sit down quietly and imagine how you would feel if your DH told you he was having a vasectomy tomorrow. Would you feel relieved or angry? That will give you your answe.

Maybe you shouldn't have children because the one thing they definitely bring is uncertainty - bucket loads of it.
For instance you might save for school fees and University but have a child with learning issues which means they won't get into "those schools" and will be much happier doing something practical as a career.

Life is for living - not planning. You can't plan. Tomorrow you could be hit by a bus.
I have known people have children whilst on a 10 year around the world trip.

You don't have to have children. They may or may not happen regardless of what you want. But life is for living, with or without children.

How can people think it is possible to 'over think' a decision as utterly life changing and defining as having children?

Of course people should think about it and weigh the pros and cons.

We have the capacity for thought on top of our animal instincts to reproduce...do please use it people.

I wonder if the real issue is not that you don't know whether or not you want kids at 33, it's why you feel its so critically important to draw a line on the sand on the issue now?

Yet again and again I am told by others that one day I will change my mind and that tiny element of uncertainty makes it impossible for me to know how to move forwards.

OP, speaking as a fellow person that really likes planning and certainties, you sound as though you are searching for a level of life certainty here that just doesn't exist.

Putting the kids/no kids issue aside for a moment, your wider plans for investing in your future (travel, planning for old age tc) are also going to be fraught with uncertainty, you just never know what is round the corner in terms of health, job situation etc. And I'm speaking from bitter experience here. Planning is a good thing, but its no bad thing to always have both a Plan A and a Plan B.

33 is a great age to consider this, not least because of the fertility factors. Leaving it open lowers the odds of having DC.

I have nothing very helpful to add, other than I found this whole thread fascinating, because this could about 90% be my life right now. The exception is that I have a step-son (teenage), but other than that it's literally everything I have been considering for the last year, pretty much down to the letter.

I also get hideously irritated by people who try to tell me so bloody 'knowingly' that 'i'll change my mind' like it's a given. 'No, person that barely know's me, maybe I won't!!'

It's that tiny element of 'will I regret not doing this'... but is that a reason to bring the responsibility of a new life into the world... that's the eternal question for me.

I was you. I didn't. No regrets. Kids are fine for a while but more than a few hours bores me. I would have been an awful parent.

Absolutely don't do it for 'care in your old age'. No guarantees. We all need to look out for ourselves.

I wasn’t sure age 33. We were not financially in a position to have kids, and while I’d always thought ‘some day’ that decision was getting inexorably closer. Boyfriend eventually told me that he’d considered it and although he wanted kids he could be happy with just us too. Us was more important.

Then we unexpectedly had opportunity to buy a house, improved financial situation a bit, I started a company. Still no clarity. I did not plan our life as kids or no kids, more what our priorities and opportunities were.

Then age 35 I was walking home one night and just thought ‘yup, it’s time’. By 36 I was pregnant, turned 37 baby due in jan. We were prepared for it to take longer or for it not to happen. But here we are.

Life is not a certainty. Being with your dh for the next 5 years is not a certainty.

I knew a couples who had planned a huge wedding that was to take place in a couple of months who ended up getting married in hospital 2 days before the groom passed away

In have been to huge white weddings where the bride and groom have explained in detail their plans for the first 3 years of marriage. Only for there to be a terrible car accident 6 weeks later. And the bride found herself a widow.
Dd last year had her 5 year plan which was to stay on at college finish her course then specialising for 3 years in a relevant uni/school
A chance meeting in a coffee shop just before Christmas and her life is completely different. She has her own business and it is going really well.

It is possible to overthink things.

The desire to have children is totally atavistic - it has nothing whatever to do with logic. If you both have the instinct then do it; if you don't then don't. You cannot make this decision with a cost/benefit analysis - that is for decisions like moving house. This is different league.

No harm in thinking it through carefully as OP is doing.

Sounds like it's meant to be a no for you so get on with enjoying a life of no dependency on you. You sound like you're in a great position.

If you change your mind later and are still fertile, go with it.

If you change your mind later and aren't fertile, it'll be sad but life is full of coulda woulda shouldas and what ifs and paths not taken. You'll feel sad, you'll work through it, you'll continue to love life.

Foster your ties with kids of family members and friends, build nurturing relationships with them.

OP, I didn't have my DC until my late 30s. My DH and I had been married for 15 years before we had them.

Your thought processes sound very similar to mine, bar being fussy over the state of the house - I've always been a bit too relaxed!

But, I love my boys to bits. I ENJOY going to watch their sporting activities, even though I do grizzle about it. I get such a kick out of watching them just 'do' stuff, and their beaming faces when they achieve something.

In many ways, having children has reminded me of the best of people. That it's ok to be proud of something you do, which is something we stop doing as adults because it's seen to be boastful and big-headed. All those strangers that stop to help carry a pushchair up or down the stairs at train stations. The lovely smiles you get from people when your DC give them a beaming smile. It opens a window to the best of humanity. Sadly, it can also open a window to the not so nice sides of people too, sometimes.

But my favourite right now, is how my sons love to snuggle in bed with me on a weekend morning, they pull out their ipads and play on them for awhile, lounging around me on my bed. It restores me, just having that time with them.

And personally, I've gone through a real trauma with my husband, and my sons have been my lifeline. Without them I'm not sure I would have survived, I really don't.

I have two children. 5 and 8 months. We travel a lot with them (including long haul). We have a 'life' with reliable babysitters (no family around). I work 4 days a week and we have a nanny who does our babysitting. She has been with us for 5+ years now and is a part of the family.
The first 6 weeks with both were hard. But overall there is very little we haven't done because of them. Both our careers are going well. I am definitely more tired than I was because I finish work early to spend time with them and then work late at night.

Two things though. I always wanted kids. I like kids. I like chatting with them. Playing with them. Second, my DH is an entirely equal parent. We used to earn the same but he took a different career path and earn X4 what I do. But he cooks, cleans, wakes up with them at night, takes them for classes, is fully invested in their lives. Every weekend he insists I go upstairs and 'chill' for 2-3 hours while he has both boys. (During the week I do slightly more childcare than him). How much he earns has nothing to do with his parenting. He is an equal parent because he wants to be one.

Also my house is fairly neat and clean. Again, I do tidy up once they are in bed (and I enforce an early bedtime) but as I said, I don't feel my life is that chaotic.

We are planning to move continents with them next year for 3-4 years before returning in time for DS1 to be in secondary school. It's a good career move for both of us and an adventure for the kids.

'No harm in thinking it through carefully as OP is doing.'

Absolutely right. Not everyone feels comfortable acting on instinct and taking a risk on something so huge. Some of us are more comfortable with lists and plans

I disagree with people saying that you can't plan because anything can happen in the future. Of course you can plan, it doesn't mean that life will definitely work out that way, but there's nothing wrong with thinking about how you would like your life to work out and taking steps in that direction

My sisters and I will certainly be around for our child free uncle when the time comes. I see that quite a lot in my work - nieces (sadly not usually nephews) stepping to help elderly relatives.

Thank you everyone for such thoughtful answers, it really is so helpful to hear from lots of different experiences. One thing I notice is that those who had children (whether planned or unplanned) are happy with their lives overall and don't regret having them, but equally most of those people who chose not to have children don't regret their choice either. It seems like an obvious point but it's helpful as it confirms my suspicion that you can't regret/miss something you've never had provided it was your choice not to have it in the first place. Overall I think I'm probably leaning towards not wanting children and it's quite reassuring to hear that a) that's OK and b) that may well never change. Again, an obvious statement but I've spent the past few years listening to everyone tell me that one day I'll change my mind and have therefore spent a good deal of time almost waiting for this maternal feeling to hit me...it's actually quite a relief to think perhaps it will never come.

I want my life to mean something and I want to leave the world a marginally better place than before I arrived. I've always been led to believe the only way to leave a legacy of that kind is to have children - we're constantly told the meaning of life is to procreate - but I feel a sense of calm when I allow myself to imagine that actually my legacy can be left in other ways. The time I would have dedicated to raising my own family can be spent trying to be the best auntie/godparent/wife/daughter possible. I can volunteer in the community and continue to build my career, take up hobbies and enrich my life in other ways. I know none of these things are incompatible with having a family either, but I can do them without having to strike a balance with bringing up children. I do have a younger brother who will probably have his own children in a few years' time and I quite like the thought that when our own parents are old enough to require extra care I may be in a position to help them without feeling that I'm being stretched quite so thinly as other women who are juggling both children and elderly parents. There are lots of positives to be found when you look for them.

I have tried to test myself by imagining myself in different scenarios and whether that situation might make me want children. a) married to a DH who actively wanted a family (no). b) in finances were no obstacle and we had so much money that neither of us had to work again (no) c) if my DH turned out to be physically unable to give me children (no) d) if someone told me I had to have them now or never at all (no). I may just need to accept that I may not be destined to be a mother.

Just FWIW and for those who make the valid point that there is still an element of uncertainty about how I might feel in ten years time and where that would leave us if we felt differently, I have always been open to the idea of adoption. It's not important to me whether or not I would be related to a child by blood. I definitely believe you can become a mum through so many ways other than biology.

But in 10 years time wouldn't you be too old to adopt.

I have known women like yourself who at your age could not imagine ever having children. Then out of the blue the need far out weighed any plans, any career opportunity, any list of for and against.

I would not discount having children based on a for and against list.

I never had the ‘neeeeed kids’ thing - people also described this to me and it never happened. If I had waited for the physical desire some described that wouldn’t have happened. I did however go from agonised trying to weigh things up at age 33 to ‘it will be fine’ at age 35. If it had been ‘too late’ we would have been ok with that too. But I needed that little click in my brain before I could proceed.

I would proceed with how you feel now, which sounds like you don’t want kids. If you change your mind, you may or may not have options. You are aware of that. Proceed as if your decision is your decision, if you change your mind that becomes your decision.

Adoption is very different from having biological DC, and significantly more life changing and challenging from what I’ve observed with RL friends and acquaintances who are adoptive parents.

Funny I was discussing with a friend today how you often don't realise how you feel about having children until you have a pregnancy scare or are told you won't be able to have them. It's a tough one and I don't think anybody here can make the decision for you. Having children is the hardest, and the best thing I have ever done.

OP I was like you and had an unplanned child at 33. I'd leave it if I were you.
I never had any maternal instincts. Everyone said I'd change my mind but I didn't. I stupidly thought that because I'd had no accidents that I was probably infertile and I didn't mind.
Well, I was wrong as I discovered. I considered top but couldn't go through with it. I was caught between not wanting to terminate and not wanting to keep. Horrid place to be. I had my baby, it was terribly difficult. Financially we had saved and had a good home. But partner was working long hours and I did the child rearing alone. Some days I wondered if I would ever get dressed and see people again. Truly awful. I made a massive mistake and my maternal instincts didn't kick in. I just went through the motions and did the right things.
My child is 11 and I'm in awe of her and pissed off at her in equal measures. But I'm still not maternal, I'm always pleased to go to quiet places and am still essentially rather selfish.
However, I never expected any help or company in my old age and don't think anyone should rely on their kids for that. It's not always realistic.
I wouldn't recommend based on what you've written, but that's all I can go on.

whether 33 is too young to make the firm decision that kids aren't for us given that neither of us have felt the biological urge to have children yet and whether it's reasonable for us to begin to plan our lives assuming that we won't have any, bearing in mind I know there are still years left in which I might change my mind

Plan your life according to how you feel now. Throw yourself into your career, make plans for travel. Enjoy what you have and can do with the now.

Anything might happen, but you do not tend to regret decisions that you took believing them to be the best and most appropriate action at the time.

So - say you invest a lot of time and energy and financial commitment into your career. In 4 years time you fall pregnant (planned or otherwise). You haven't at that point "wasted" anything - you'll have higher earning potential, more experience, etc etc. which can still be useful - along with higher pension contributions, more skills, none of which will go to waste. Who knows what may have happened to your DH's career in that time also? Plan for the life you have now, and accept that should anything change you'll just reassess then.

I definitely wouldn't plan my life around the possibility that I might feel different in an unspecified amount of time.

Equally I do not see the need for you to make "a firm decision at 33" that you'll definitely never have children. If only because should you ever wish to change your mind, for whatever reason, it's harder to step away from a "firm decision".

I'm a parent - it's bloody wonderful.
But there are definitely days when I can imagine an alternative life that's also fulfilling in different ways.

The problem is that you can maybe write a realistic cons list but you can't ever write a realistic pros list because all of the best things about having kids are things you can't comprehend until they're here. We were just like you until my mum died and my feelings completely changed. We now have twins and yes it's hard but it's also amazing in ways I've never imagined, I have no regrets since we are both older and I don't feel like I'm missing out by focussing on them

Don’t have children unless you really want them. They are incredibly hard work... very rewarding but your life is just not the same.
I really, really wanted chikdren and I love mine to death.. but I’d be lying if I didn’t say I missed my old life.. pleasing myself, relaxing holidays and travel, romantic time with DH