To want to know whether children are on the cards for us?

[shouldknowbynow]

I don't know whether I'll ever want children and am struggling to visualise my future because of it. The select handful of people I share my feelings with often tell me there's no need to make my mind up yet or that I'll probably change my mind in a few years. I understand, but the uncertainty around children causes me some anxiety. DH and I have both always been "on the fence" about having children of our own. I feel very confident that if I told DH I didn't wish to have children he would be quite content with it being "just us" for the rest of our lives. The ball is firmly in my court, so to speak. For context we are 33, have been married for several years, in good health and have a generally rich and fulfilling life together.

Our indifference towards children makes me want to make the categorical decision not to have any and to plan my life accordingly. Yet again and again I am told by others that one day I will change my mind and that tiny element of uncertainty makes it impossible for me to know how to move forwards. If kids are not on our cards I want to start investing in our future in other ways. I would throw myself into my career, save so we could travel the world, perhaps live in another country and do many of the things that are much easier to do when you don't have DC's dependant on you. I would make a concerted effort to invest more in our relationships with DH's nephews beyond "friendly aunt and uncle" level, as I know they would be the only ones able to visit us when we grow old if we have no DCs of our own.

If kids ARE on our cards, then of course the way I plan ahead would be different. Saving for schools and trust funds instead, living closer to family so that we have a support network, perhaps looking to start a family soon so that my own parents are still alive to meet their grandchildren and can play an active role in their childhood, choosing property in a good catchment area with bedrooms for any children we might have etc.

I can list our reasons for and against it below, but I suppose my AIBU isn't whether or not our reasons for not wanting children at the moment are valid, but whether it's OK for a 33 year old couple to make the decision not to have children when there are still a few years left where we might change our minds?

Reasons for:-

1. Purely selfish. Presuming DH pops his clogs before me it's very likely I won't have anyone to look out for me in my old age. No one to visit me, no one to vet potential residential homes for me or kick up a fuss if I'm mistreated by carers. No familiar faces for company or to share stories and memories with. The last decade or so of my life could be a very lonely one.

1. I would miss out on what other people describe as the "joy" of having children. This is speculative as I can't actually imagine what that joy must feel like, but I do of course accept that if I had children I would love them and take great pride in them (but can you miss something if you've never had it?) DH has two nephews and I love them dearly but am quite ready to hand them back to DSIL at the end of the day.

1. I'd probably make an OK mother. I'm a loving, compassionate and caring person when it comes to DH and my family. I work hard, am active and outdoorsy, relatively financially secure, have a strong family network, am very conscientious and I'm sure if we had children I would throw myself into it 100% and be able to offer them a happy childhood.

Reasons against:-

1. I currently have no maternal instincts.

1. In becoming a good mother I think I would become a worse wife. I have a tendency towards perfectionism and like things done a certain way. I can easily envisage myself getting frustrated and angry with poor DH and undermining him if I feel he isn't parenting "properly". I am aware of what a terrible wife that makes me sound and I so desperately don't want to be that person.

1. Although we are financially secure, to have a child would make things very tight and put pressure on DH to support us if I take a break from work. We could not afford to support any DC's in the same way that our own parents (baby boomers) have supported us. We may not be able to help them buy their first car, pay for expensive extra curricular activities or provide much of a deposit for their first home.

1. Again, selfish. The thought of the parameters of my life becoming so small while the DCs are dependant on me is terrifying.

1. I'm the first person to admit I'm very particular about the state of our house. I like things to be clean and everything in it's place and disruption and mess can really stresses me out. That is NOT the kind of mother I would want to be. I would want to be a relaxed mother who doesn't mind a bit of mess and chaos or a raucaus game, but the mere thought of it sets me on edge, which is very sad.

I would be interested to hear some thoughts, particularly from anyone who made the decision not to have a family and have either regretted it or have gone on to have happy, childless lives.

OP - you may be the person who is interested in their lives and really lovely to them, and then gets to give them back to their parents ! No bad thing.

My friend without children used to put my DC to bed, with several bedtime stories. Her DH used to push the pram when we were out and about. It's like they wanted some of the experience of having children.

Like pp, I don't expect my DC to take care of me in my old age, or even be living nearby.

I hope nobody takes offence at that phrase, but I've seen too many people do the marriage + baby + mortgage + career sacrifice to not be of the mind that if you're not 100% on adding to the planet's population, don't.

My first husband expected me to drop my career, do all the house crap and provide him with children. Well, shit on that!

At 30 my biological clock chimed and I had to try for my own child/ren. It was that intuitive. You really don't sound like you have this desire. Enjoy your life as it is. As a woman in your 30s you have only another decade or so to have a baby so keep an eye on how you feel about things. It's shit that the window is that small but that's how things are. You sound very self aware so I think you'll be ok. And you sound like a lovely aunt. I can tell you, as I think you can see, lovely thoughtful aunties are important and valued. And very loved by the small ones.

'Well, shit on that!'

Well said I think it just doesn't occur to some people that being childfree is a thing. I feel very passionately about promoting staying childfree as a positive and fulfilling way to live your life. It's never going to be for everyone, but some people are not even aware that it's an option

Its ok to not want children even though that's what society expects. Yes you love them but by god they turn your life upside down!

I can't tell you what's reasonable for you, but perhaps my experience would be useful for you to hear.

We were told at 25 that our chances of conceiving were very low, and if we ever wanted children we'd better get cracking. I was very against having children at that point, so dh and I agreed that we would just accept that we probably never would. I carried on using contraception, if somewhat lackadaisically (I was on the pill as it was good for my skin).

About 5 years later, another test came back which they told us meant that we had no chance of conceiving without IVF, and stuff was being said about how staying for too long on that pill was dangerous, so I came off it. By now dh had accepted that we would never have dc, and we planned our life on that basis.

A couple of years later, we took the plunge, quit our jobs and moved abroad, thinking that if we weren't going to have children we may as well live the kind of life that children would make difficult/impossible.

You probably guess what comes next: within a year I was pregnant. It was terrible timing and made things much more complicated, but I had always known that dh secretly longed for children, so never even considered not having it. We decided not to pack in our adventure and go back to the boring jobs, but try and incorporate our child into our new lives.

This was 10 years ago. I can genuinely say the last 10 years have been absolutely the happiest I've ever been. In fact I am happier than I ever dreamed was even possible. Ds1 was followed 3 years later by ds2, and they are the best thing that has ever happened to dh and I. I was always worried that our relationship would suffer, and it really hasn't, in fact quite the opposite, as I really appreciate all the work dh does as a parent and he feels the same about me.

We have brought up our dc in a way that is completely different from anything we would have planned in advance, but it is working really well so far and all four of us get along wonderfully.

Looking back I think that I might have missed out on all this so easily and really have trouble imagining it.

OP I could have written your initial post myself six or seven years ago. Apart from not having any DN everything resonated. We now have a DD - conceived through IVF - and I'll admit that even whilst undergoing fertility treatment I still sat very much on the fence and genuinely think we could've been happy without children. I never had that absolute yearning to be a mum. As it is she brings an indescribable absolute joy to my life but I'm still me...I am not the most naturally maternal person, I still like things done my way, I still like the house to be tidy etc. Our life has undoubtedly changed in terms of freedom, spontaneity etc but it's not worse per se (though sometimes I'd kill for a lie in or a day to myself) it's just a different life.

I’m in a similar position and it sounds so strange to ask but... why did you want children? (To the other posters!)

I love them as OP does but am so logical about reasons not to have them. Why did you want them? (Beyond hormones)

I doubt you’d regret having children, because you’d get a lot from them. However, I have my third on the way, and honestly, it’s the hardest thing in the world! I wouldn’t swap it though.

I don’t think bring around other people’s children would really affect you. I was never particularly interested in others’ kids, I’m still not, but I think mine are frickin’ awesome! Don’t compare his you feel about other kids to his you might feel about your own, there’s no comparison.

I’m unsure if you need to plan so much, children can fit in with you and your life. You don’t necessarily need to put loads of money aside for the futures. There will be sacrifices of course but you don’t have to have one or the other.

I agree with The others though, you shouldn’t feel pressured just because society says you’re a woman should have children.

The having someone to look after you in old age thing - as others have said there's no guarantee that will happen even with kids. But also, you'd have something you potentially don't want, for the rest of your life, just for the sake of the final decade. I've not worded that well, but I hope it makes sense.

I'm 34, DH is 37.
We still look mildly horrified when our friends declare they're having a baby.

PeanutButter said 'I didn't want to have not children'. I'm aware that probably sounds to many like an awful, passive? reason for having a child but perfectly sums up how I felt.
I felt.

*not have

I think you should strike off #1 from your pros list. You won't necessarily need care and even if you do need care and have kids, those kids could have emigrated or not be in a position to deal with you for some other reason. Ditto for the nephews.

I think instead of plan 1 or plan 2 you should make a more flexible plan, plan #3. You could go abroad now to live for a couple of years to fulfil that ambition. It won't stop you having kids if you decide to. There is a risk that you will suddenly get a desperate urge to have kids in the next few years so I'd try to cover that risk by having a flexible plan.

The stuff on your cons list is stuff that... isn’t really an issue when you have children. It is stuff that you think means you shouldn’t have children, if you don’t have them (if that makes sense).

There’s no reason you can’t travel the world and then have children. There’s no reason you can’t live abroad with children, or any of the other things on your list. You really REALLY don’t need to have saved up for a trust fund for your children. If you can’t afford private school fees then you can’t afford them, nobody will die. You really shouldn’t be saving for years before they’re even born to send them to a school that’s out of your budget.

You’re so fixed on this idea of perfect motherhood that it’s stopping you having children. You don’t need to be perfect, you can just be a normal person who happens to have children.

I think the slummy mummy gin blogs are a bit tiresome, but you really don’t need to be this woman to have kids (in fact I’m not completely sure that she was even pregnant, just TTC):

sewliberated.typepad.com/sew_liberated/2009/04/finnians-montessori-room.html

You and I sound very similar OP albeit I’m a few years older than you. I was on the fence for years and years. No maternal bone in me whatsoever until I neared my 40’s and realised that If I didn’t have a child I’d feel As though I had missed out on what I see is for most people a fantastic experience in life. 3 years later I have one DC and another on the way. Becoming a parent has been incredibly hard. To parent another I’ve had to put my needs second as well as grow up a lot. I’m still in the depths of toddlerdom and about to start it all again. I’m scared and anxious as I know how hard having children is and the at times negative impact on me, my marriage, my whole life. However, I wouldn’t change my situation for all the tea in China. I have a fantastic son who I love so much words cannot explain. He’s brought a lot of joy, laughter and a heck of a lot of love in my world. Yes, more grey hairs, saggy bits and fewer exotic holidays that life pre-child but as far as I’m concerned, the sacrifice is worth it. If it wasn’t then most kids would be only children! Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

I think the biggest impediment to having children for you is your husband/partner. He doesn't sound fussed at all about them, you don't think he'll be hands on, you will make the career sacrifice automatically- it's all rather depressing, actually, as he clearly doesn't want to come out and just say 'I don't want to have kids' but isn't into the adventure of it or supporting you all as a family. No wonder it doesn't look such a fun deal for you- all the grunt work, career down the toilet (read the has having children affected your career), his lack of enthusiasm, it would be harder with him than with someone who is really keen, can take a hands on/equal parent role and genuinely wants to build a family (which my husband did). At times I found it hard going, my husband believed in the goal of us being a family together and it all being worth it, and I don't think you have that so my feeling is that for you, it would be a less good deal than for some other people, and if you are on the fence, and not feeling maternal, it might be better to continue the life he obviously likes and you do too.

Absolutely no reason not to throw yourself into your career now - in the unlikely event that you (and DH) do have a lightning strike of broodiness aged 37 it’s generally the people highest up the ladder who find it easiest to negotiate family friendly working hours and/or pay for top quality childcare. Ditto travel - you can do a lot of moving in 8 months.

Summerswallow I'm not sure where you've got that from, or why if my DH was the one posting others couldn't just as easily say the same about me and my own lack of enthusiasm, though I'm not sure that's the right description for being undecided about children. Neither one of us is more inclined to start a family than the other. I'm fortunate enough to be married to a wonderful, kindhearted man who on the one hand sees me as being enough to content him for the rest of his life without the addition of children but who has also said that if I ever felt the strong urge to have kids that he would of course embark on that journey with me with an open heart. I don't blame him or think less of him for not wanting children just the same way that he doesn't hold it against me either. He's my DH and the greatest love of my life, not an obstacle to be overcome.

Thank you Liara for sharing your story. DH and I both had conventional childhoods and I love to hear of others who have given their DC's a different set of life experiences.

Thank you to those of you who've said that you don't really need to plan ahead to start a family. Whilst I know that not everyone feels the need to, I have always been the type of person who needs to know what kind of life they are aiming to build. Perhaps others deal better with the uncertainty, but my career is also such that it wouldn't be so easy to just take time out to have children or decrease my hours. It's more of an all or nothing career that would require considerable investment both in time and money for the next few years if I were to envisage doing it for the rest of my life (which is quite possible, as I love my job). If I could foresee children in our future then it would not be worth such a big financial investment now, as it would be difficult to keep up with DC's at home. To know one way or the other now is not entirely necessary but certainly would be advantageous.

I’ll tell you my “story”...moved to a new area and went to the Dr’s to get a repeat prescription of my pill. Awesome, simple, right?! Nope, she told me all about my fertility and gave me a binder on what I should expect.

I was upset and went home and cried. She refused to prescribe me my pill.

Fast forward 18 months and I have a daughter who I could not kmgine my life without.

It’s us to you but please be aware that you may be setting yourself up for fertility problems purely because you want to live in another country or to go on a few more holidays.

I wouldn’t trade that for what I’ve got, and I’m pretty sure if that conversation had never happened, I would not have had my DD.

Ah, I'm 34 and had my first child 8 months ago having been married for 8 years. My DH and I were also on the fence as we were very happy without children and I was afraid I wouldn't enjoy the baby phase of being a mother. I was worried what would happen to my marriage and if I'd feel trapped.

Its absolutely fine to not want children.

However, when I thought about it, I realised how important my family is to me (extended family and immediate family) and that pushed me to make the leap and I have to tell you the rewards and joys of motherhood are beyond anything I could have imagined.

A lot of people are on the fence about having children, so you aren't unusual. It just means you are happy in your current life. I literally had nightmares while pregnant though so I really do understand your uncertainty.

The best thing I can say about being a parent is that you get to create people you love as much as the most treasured relationships in your current life.

Sorry if I misread and put that in the wrong way. But it does sound like your life would be massively more impacted if you had children than his. He would have the same career and you say he wouldn't be so hands on. Your career will take a back seat in a way that it might never ever recover (really read that thread, it's eye opening), and you will be doing most of the childcare- so if you don't love it, it will impact you more than him! But you are right I shouldn't have described him as an obstacle in that way, that was rude. I think it's just a tiny bit sad that it seems inevitable your life would be massively more impacted by children than his, and it might be worth thinking about this as this is a key source of resentment for lots of women.

With respect to your H, you’ve said you suspect he would be unlikely to fully share the domestic work and parenting, and you would be likely to have a fairly traditional set up of you doing the lion’s share and him earning. That doesn’t bode too well IMO when, at present, you enjoy the same kinds of things he does and are unsure if you’d like parenting.

There are many, many stories on MN of men letting the mothers of their children, and their children, down, very often by not pulling their weight.

Should you have DC you might hate being on maternity leave or a SAHM. You might love it but not like the (major) effects on your financial independence and career. So your preferred sharing of responsibilities might be different to your current assumption. He might step up, of course, but a LOT of men don’t.

*I would make a concerted effort to invest more in our relationships with DH's nephews beyond "friendly aunt and uncle" level, as I know they would be the only ones able to visit us when we grow old if we have no DCs of our own.
*

I would hate to think people were spending time with my children for reasons like this.

Anyway, your nephews will grow up to have their own lives. They might not have time to be visiting both their parents and you. They might be too busy or have no interest etc.