To want to know whether children are on the cards for us?

[shouldknowbynow]

I don't know whether I'll ever want children and am struggling to visualise my future because of it. The select handful of people I share my feelings with often tell me there's no need to make my mind up yet or that I'll probably change my mind in a few years. I understand, but the uncertainty around children causes me some anxiety. DH and I have both always been "on the fence" about having children of our own. I feel very confident that if I told DH I didn't wish to have children he would be quite content with it being "just us" for the rest of our lives. The ball is firmly in my court, so to speak. For context we are 33, have been married for several years, in good health and have a generally rich and fulfilling life together.

Our indifference towards children makes me want to make the categorical decision not to have any and to plan my life accordingly. Yet again and again I am told by others that one day I will change my mind and that tiny element of uncertainty makes it impossible for me to know how to move forwards. If kids are not on our cards I want to start investing in our future in other ways. I would throw myself into my career, save so we could travel the world, perhaps live in another country and do many of the things that are much easier to do when you don't have DC's dependant on you. I would make a concerted effort to invest more in our relationships with DH's nephews beyond "friendly aunt and uncle" level, as I know they would be the only ones able to visit us when we grow old if we have no DCs of our own.

If kids ARE on our cards, then of course the way I plan ahead would be different. Saving for schools and trust funds instead, living closer to family so that we have a support network, perhaps looking to start a family soon so that my own parents are still alive to meet their grandchildren and can play an active role in their childhood, choosing property in a good catchment area with bedrooms for any children we might have etc.

I can list our reasons for and against it below, but I suppose my AIBU isn't whether or not our reasons for not wanting children at the moment are valid, but whether it's OK for a 33 year old couple to make the decision not to have children when there are still a few years left where we might change our minds?

Reasons for:-

1. Purely selfish. Presuming DH pops his clogs before me it's very likely I won't have anyone to look out for me in my old age. No one to visit me, no one to vet potential residential homes for me or kick up a fuss if I'm mistreated by carers. No familiar faces for company or to share stories and memories with. The last decade or so of my life could be a very lonely one.

1. I would miss out on what other people describe as the "joy" of having children. This is speculative as I can't actually imagine what that joy must feel like, but I do of course accept that if I had children I would love them and take great pride in them (but can you miss something if you've never had it?) DH has two nephews and I love them dearly but am quite ready to hand them back to DSIL at the end of the day.

1. I'd probably make an OK mother. I'm a loving, compassionate and caring person when it comes to DH and my family. I work hard, am active and outdoorsy, relatively financially secure, have a strong family network, am very conscientious and I'm sure if we had children I would throw myself into it 100% and be able to offer them a happy childhood.

Reasons against:-

1. I currently have no maternal instincts.

1. In becoming a good mother I think I would become a worse wife. I have a tendency towards perfectionism and like things done a certain way. I can easily envisage myself getting frustrated and angry with poor DH and undermining him if I feel he isn't parenting "properly". I am aware of what a terrible wife that makes me sound and I so desperately don't want to be that person.

1. Although we are financially secure, to have a child would make things very tight and put pressure on DH to support us if I take a break from work. We could not afford to support any DC's in the same way that our own parents (baby boomers) have supported us. We may not be able to help them buy their first car, pay for expensive extra curricular activities or provide much of a deposit for their first home.

1. Again, selfish. The thought of the parameters of my life becoming so small while the DCs are dependant on me is terrifying.

1. I'm the first person to admit I'm very particular about the state of our house. I like things to be clean and everything in it's place and disruption and mess can really stresses me out. That is NOT the kind of mother I would want to be. I would want to be a relaxed mother who doesn't mind a bit of mess and chaos or a raucaus game, but the mere thought of it sets me on edge, which is very sad.

I would be interested to hear some thoughts, particularly from anyone who made the decision not to have a family and have either regretted it or have gone on to have happy, childless lives.

OP - one thing I would say is that you are clearly someone who is used to having a lot of control over their life and likes to optimise everything.

The thing about DC is they tend to be uncontrollable - from how long it takes to conceive, to their personality, to how much they sleep, etc. And you have to be willing to go with their flow, at least a fair bit. (Especially if, like me, you have a child with any SN).

That's been the hardest thing for me about being a parent - learning to stop planning and perfectionising and adapt to what works for them. Are you up for that...?

Dozer DH's career is quite significantly better paid than my own and has better prospects. If roles were reversed I would be open to him being a SAHD if we did ever have children and I believe he would be happy to do that if we could survive on my salary alone. But things being what they are, it is fair to assume I would be the one to step away from my career to raise children, and therefore also fair to assume I would do the majority of the day to day care. Yes I do worry that whist I have no doubt I would love any children we did have, I might not enjoy the early stages of parenthood. One of the reasons why I wouldn't want to start a family unless I really had the urge, which I don't seem to have.

It's interesting that some people on here were on the fence until they felt the overwhelming urge to have kids, while others seem to have not had a change of heart as such but simply felt they would regret it if they didn't and then never looked back. If it always came down to an overwhelming biological desire perhaps it would be easier to draw a line under it.

'She refused to prescribe me my pill'

What???? Have I got this right - your GP refused to give you a prescription for your contraceptive pill, and you ended up pregnant?

What???? Have I got this right - your GP refused to give you a prescription for your contraceptive pill, and you ended up pregnant? shock

If that is the case, its not the GP's fault she ended up pregnant.

OP you don't sound like you want children really. What is curious though is that you act as if the decision is not really yours, you "want to know if its on the cards" for example, well no-one else can tell you that, only you can decide. So decide.

Don't have kids would be my advice.

I really really wanted kids from a young age and have always been really maternal. I absolutely love being a mum and feel that this point in my life is the happiest I've ever been.

However being a parent is bloody hard work and I've certainly found that it's taken its toll on my relationship. I've lost count of the number of times after a really hard day/night/week with the kids, I've had to remind myself that this is what I wanted. IMO if you're sitting on the fence, then don't do it because there's a million different ways to have a happy and fulfilling life and the whole marriage and kids route is only one of them.

OP just a word of caution.

This may seem like a joint decision between you and OH, but it isn't. From a biological perspective you are in different places.
You have realistically another 7 years or so to to become a mother is you choose, your OH has another 25 years.

So a 33 year old man is in younger place from a reproductive view.

Men can and do change their minds about fatherhood.

So in some ways this is a decision you have to make about you and your reproductive choices, not his.

None of us can predict the future.

At 35 I was certain I would have no children. At 39 I was pregnant with my second.

Yet again and again I am told by others that one day I will change my mind and that tiny element of uncertainty makes it impossible for me to know how to move forwards.

One of my friends is 43. She still gets this. She doesn't want children and neither does her husband. They have a great life.

I, on the other hand, did have them. I have always been ambivalent about having children. If I'd never had them, I wouldn't be yearning for them now. I love my children because they are here and I know them as people. But I've never felt maternal and, if I'd never had them, I doubt i'd regret it.

I think there are probably a fair few people out there who've had them who, given their time again, wouldn't.

Don't feel pressured into something because of what other people say. Other people forget they've said it 5 minutes later. It's just words falling out of their mouths.

Get on with planning your awesome life.

Op, it is perfectly ok to decide now you don't want any kids, if that is what you feel deep down is the right thing for you, go with it!

But, having children does not have to limit your life, I am sure there are things you can't do when you have children, but travelling and living abroad are very definitely not amongst them! We have always travelled. a lot, both for pleasure when younger and also for professional reasons later, having kids has only added another level of pleasure to this, as we get to share those experiences with them and therefore also see different sides of the places we visit we might have not without the kids. And you do not even have to wait years, both my DCs were on planes before they turned two months old.

Lots of people say how hard it is, I guess it is, physically tiring, yes, and you worry for them, but it is nothing compared to the stress I have from my ( otherwise well loved) career, in fact, my family is my refuge and my strength.

But I have lots of friends who do not have children for a variety of reasons, and they are perfectly happy nor do they (with one exception unfortunately!) regret it in the slightest!

Op you seem very sensible and have thought a lot about this. If you don’t feel any kind of loss thinking of a future without children then don’t do it. If you could take or leave it then might be better to leave it.

Just because you are a woman doesn’t automatically mean you should have a child. I think the world would be a better place if people recognized that they didn’t really want children and live their lives as they want. Probably less people splitting up as it does put pressure on your relationship.

For me personally it was always something I wanted. Just took a lot longer than I thought as only met oh in my mid thirties.

It’s whatever your gut instinct tells you is right for you.

You've got good reasons for not having children, that you've obviously thought about a great deal. It amazes me that so many of the parents who've responded have tried to tell you those reasons are spurious. It infuriates and cracks me up that some people are even telling you you'll have to change in order to be a parent, when it's perfectly clear that you're happy as you are!

You're only still thinking about this because the societal pressure to do it is so overwhelming. You'll have a fantastic, free, flexible, solvent, unhurried life without kids. Enjoy!

Great post Doobigetta. I agree that the OPs life sounds great and that some people seem keen on undermining her reasons for not wanting to change that. It always worries me when people talk about how no one regrets having kids - that's utter nonsense and there have been many very sad threads on here to prove it!

I don't think everyone needs or wants children of their own.

I didn't want children from being young teenager up until a career woman of 31yo. Despite being with my DH for 10 years at that point.

Until one day when it struck me that if we didn't deliberately have a baby, We would never have a child in our lives.

Other peoples babies I was never that interested in but I loved watching toddlers and tweens learn about the world.

I went home talked to my DH and 6 years later we had four children to love. Plus I was delighted to discover my own babies were wonderful interesting and delightful to be around. I still have no interest in other people's babies.

I think you are very invested in over thinking about having a child. Which makes me think you are looking for a good reason to have one.

If you were 100% happy about your current situation, you would be not thinking about potential children so much.

I hope you talk to your husband without the pro/con list and just talk about your and his deepest thoughts and desires...decide once and for all, if your lives will be more fulfilled with a child/children.

Good luck.

Should you decide on DC there are loads of options for parenting other than you being a SAHM. It might seem to make short term financial sense for you to be the one to quit to be AH or seek to work PT, if your employer offers that, but there would be long term financial and career consequences to these decisions, for you personally and not DH.

A PP mentions you might have a decade to have a biological DC. That might well not be the case. Fertility problems can happen at any age of course, and loads of women have DC late 30s and 40s with no or few problems, but obviously in general are more likely the older you (and DH) are.

Not a factor if you are OK with the decision not to have DC, for yourself, and think you would still be OK in the event of divorce and DH potentially having DC with a new partner.

I was in a very similar position to yourself - ambivalent about having kids, financially secure, in a job that I loved, and DH was happy to carry on without. We have some neices and nephews who I wasn't particularly enamoured with either - I just thought I didn't have the maternal instinct and couldn't see that changing any time soon.

Then I was diagnosed with cancer and was told the treatment would reduce my fertility. We weren't in a position to freeZe eggs etc. due to the emergency nature of the diagnosis. Plus we weren't planning on kids any time soon so it wasn't an issue.

Two months after treatment ended, DH took me away on holiday to relax and unwind. Decided to skip contraception and see what happens. Came back to a positive test and completely freaked out. Cried that perhaps we had made the decision based on our emotions from the cancer and didn't think it was right for us. Seriously considered an abortion.

DH threw up a gem of advice that if we didn't give it a go we'd never know, and worse case scenario we wouldn't have any more (and send this one to boarding school ). Plus may not get pregnant again either.

I'm now watching my 4 month old playing in his crib and I don't regret it. Even my friends have said they were shocked that I was pregnant because I was never particularly maternal or interested in kids. I guess having my own is very different.

I guess I'm saying everyone is different and IMO it sounds like you want to give it a try but are cautious about the logistics/unknown nature of having children. It doesn't all have to be planned out for you! We moved 3 weeks before DC was born and survived. The fact that you are considering it feels like it's a door that you wouldnt like to leave closed. Take your time, give it shot!

I didn't have strong maternal feelings until a test result showed I might struggle with fertility. I was about your age. Had a great but very demanding career, nice lifestyle.
Suddenly We realised we did want children, and we ended up having IVF. Our baby is the light of our lives, the single best decision we ever made.
I shudder now to think if I hadn't had that test result - for something else entirely - we might not have realised until it was too late.

I never planned to have children, and I'm not a particularly maternal person. Contraceptive failure happened and I am happy with the outcome, but my dc is disabled so the changes to my lifestyle have been further reaching than anyone would imagine. I think that even though severe disabilities are rare, it's something you need to consider because it disrupts your life more than anything like a bit of mess or a short break from work (I have never been able to return to work). Even a short term illness can change long term plans dramatically. And some disabilities aren't apparent from birth, or come from accidents or illness at a later point, so getting screened or knowing you have no genetic risk is not always a guide. When you decide to become a parent, you take on that risk, and you can only plan for so much. I know that some people just aren't prepared to take on that risk at all, and it has put them off having children because it's the only way to eliminate the risk entirely.

You don't want to hear this but you are over-thinking this. For me, deciding to have children was like a biological switch turning on one morning. I am went to bed as usual and i woke up ready to be a mother. I don't think it's something that can be decided by a pros and cons list.

My brother and his partner (mid 40s and late 30s) have no children, very demanding jobs, travel the world and really enjoy the life they have together. TBH I’d be surprised if they suddenly announced that a baby was on the way.

They are a very, very hands-on uncle and aunt to my two boys and absolutely adore them. My boys adore them in return. But the thought of them only taking an interest in my boys so that the boys will be there for them in their old age baffles me and is rather upsetting. OP, maybe you phrased the last bit of your original post less clearly than you meant to?

We are childfree by choice. I knew from a very early age that I didn't want children and have never regretted the decision. We're now in our fifties and have a nice life, and more importantly a great relationship.

Most people I know who have kids have been through some kind of hell in their relationship with their partner following the children's arrival, mainly because the partner did not step up.

My DSis raised her 2 lovely boys with very little help from her DH - he continued to act like a young singlish bloke, building his career, travelling etc while DSIS' career stalled. She finally snapped and they are now divorced.

DSIL had her opinion of her DH changed just about overnight when their DD was born. He suddenly started working 12-14 hour days so he could avoid bed/bathtime and later on playdates etc. He still does it now their DD is 16 - he doesn't want to have to deal with the homework maelstrom. DSIL resents him and their relationship has never recovered.

I was talking to a friend at the weekend - her and her DH are childfree (she always just assumed she would have children but her DH told her he didn't want children very early in their relationship - it took her about two years to commit to marriage on those terms. They've been married about 15 years and she has no regrets). She, like me, has seen the angst caused by school gate feuds, parenting differences, picky eaters even before you get to the life changing issues of disability, relationship breakdown etc.

I know most people, mothers especially, would say that their children are their greatest joy, but there is a real taboo in telling it how it really is.

If you're not 100% sure, don't do it! And previous posters are right in pointing out people who don't have children generally seem to put much more thought into the decision than people who do!

AyeAye, 'overthinking' is just thinking. Some people prefer lists, logic and planning to emotion, especially for such a huge decision. Some people would think that making such a huge decision seemingly on an overnight whim sounds bonkers. It's very difficult when you have a conflict between head and heart - everyone has to find their own way through that

Lottie - what I'm saying is is that it isn't really something that a pros and cons list would sort. The only actual pro to having children is that you want children. It's not like say buying a house where you weigh up several. It is massive, I agree.

From your lists of how you wish to live your life if you do/don't have children. I think we must have missed the rule book.

Since having dc we have done all the things that you listed in your not having children list. We have travelled the world, and instead of moving closer to family we are planning on emigrating.

It was drummed into me that children ruin your life. But having had them, quite late on, instead of ruining my life I found it to be one of the best experiences of my life.I have done so much more stuff since having them than I ever did before.

I wish I had never listened to people who had told me to avoid pregnancy at all costs as my only regret is that I wish I had started earlier.

Never say never to anything as you don't know what life has got in store for you.
You can plan for children and you can plan not to have them but life has a habit of coming up and throwing all your best laid out plans out of the window.

I think many women have certainty that they do/don't want children, but for others it's a much less black-and-white thing. Just because you don't know for sure doesn't make you freakish or unusual or in any way abnormal.

I understand what you say about planning, but the fact of the matter is we can only think that way because we exist in unusually stable Western societies. And even then, you never know what is around the corner. My best advice is to live life to the fullest you can now - throw yourself into the career, do the travelling and living abroad if that is what you want, and then if you decide you do definitely want children later on, you can retrench and still be in a great position because we're really only talking a few years ahead, not decades!

CatkinToadflax thank you for your comment but no, I meant it the way it was phrased and I don't think there's anything malicious or inherently wrong in saying that. I've already said that we both have a very sincere and genuine love for DH's nephews and it doesn't make that any less true. The reality is that when you're old and less mobile you appreciate having family close by to visit with, spend Christmas with etc and those family bonds are very important to both of us. If I knew we would have our own children then it seems quite natural to assume that that the bulk of our emotional investment and energy would go into our relationships with our children. We would of course continue to nurture strong relationships with our nephews but our own children would come first and would be the focus of that emotional and financial investment, as I would expect of any parent. If we decide not to have our own children then we would want to use that surplus time, emotional energy and financial freedom to invest in our nephews. And of course I would hope that if we manage to develop strong family bonds with them that they might voluntarily enjoy spending time with their aunty and uncle when we're old and doddery.

AyeAyeFishyPie thank you for your comment. As I tried to explain in my OP the question isn't really whether our reasons for/against children are valid, it's whether 33 is too young to make the firm decision that kids aren't for us given that neither of us have felt the biological urge to have children yet and whether it's reasonable for us to begin to plan our lives assuming that we won't have any, bearing in mind I know there are still years left in which I might change my mind. If I felt the overwhelming desire to have children a pros and cons list wouldn't hold much weight compared to that desire, but as I haven't felt that desire yet trying to weigh up the logical reasons for and against us starting a family is really all I have. The reasons for and against are there to add context and logic to why this is such an issue for me at the moment. If I had only posted the issue without any of our reasoning I suspect many people would have asked what the reasons for not wanting children were, and so I tried to anticipate that and offer them in advance.

OP, it sounds like your anxiety is because you have got to a stage where other people's (friends /relatives) lives have gone down the children route. That has become their main preoccupation now and you're noticing the shift. So you are left with the question, that if your lives are not to follow suit, then what next? Will holidays / personal freedom / careers etc be "enough" for you in the long run?

Only you can decide how you feel about facing the future and what you want out of life. For me, I don't remember having any particular rush of a maternal instinct at any point. Other people's DC were just that - other people's babies. It was more that I never doubted I would have DC (health permitting of course). I couldn't really imagine not having that legacy and life experience.

Like you, I was fortunate that I had a DH who was happy to financially support us so I could be at home with the DC (we have three) for as long as I wanted. What I would say to you, is that you can't worry about how you will feel if you have DC because if you do, your whole mindset and perspective in life will never be the same again anyway. Things that are important to you now, like order and a tidy house, will shift into other priorities. You will see the world through you DC's eyes, not only your own, if that makes sense?

I don't think you need to put too much pressure in yourself now either. People are regularly having DC in their late 30s these days. As they say, life is what happens while you're busy making other plans!