Universal Credit won't be paid in months with 5 weeks. (WTF?) AIBU to think no one realises

[raisinsarenottheonlyfruit]

If you get paid weekly, and there are 5 weeks in a month, in those months your pay will likely go over the Universal Credit limit and your UC will be stopped. You will have to go without that month and apply again.

WTF are they thinking?

Have they never heard of averages FFS? (That's how Tax Credits works). This is going to screw over so many people. It's ludricous.

The people claiming UC aren't any richer that month, they get the same amount of money as if it was paid in 12 monthly chunks.

This will happen to thousands of people every time there's a month with 5 weeks. (I guess they mean 5 Mondays?)

This is farcical.

There's 5 weeks in January, so if you get paid weekly that's you fucked for February.

April, July, October and December also have 5 Mondays.

This is utterly farcical and just plain callous.

The six week wait is made up of the first week wait, then you wait a further week for your first payment. The money you get is not for the previous 6 weeks but for the next calender month. You don't get back payments so you have to make up those six weeks lapse in income for housing ect from your future payments. THIS is why there are record rates of rent arrears.

ilovewelshrarebit123 that's shocking about the tax rebate being treated as income. It goes against common sense.

Having said that what about the ones that dont? The ones that have heaps of kids, go away on holidays 3times a year, are always out partying that Can work but are to lazy and the fact that they receive more on benefits than what they would get in a job

Even if these mythical people existed, how on earth do you work out that they would not be affected by UC?

ilovewelshrarebit123 it would be worth seeing if you could get a discretionary housing payment from your LA.

'Having said that what about the ones that dont? The ones that have heaps of kids, go away on holidays 3times a year, are always out partying that Can work but are to lazy and the fact that they receive more on benefits than what they would get in a job, i find it soul destroying knowing i (and many others) go out and work 12 hour shifts 5-6 days a week just to pay the bills and put food on the table for my family, who I barley see as i have to work those hours, yet there is people out there that abuse the benefit system and have done for years and they are not being affected by the UC.'

What's soul destroying is how many people have been keeping their eye on 'benefits abusers' and not on the House of Lords, MP's still abusing the expenses systems, large corporation abusing the system to the tune of billions in tax they don't pay and the government's collusion with them to systematically erode employee rights.

What depresses me is the lumping together of all the people who need help with the few that are genuinely feckless.

And it affects EVERYONE. Accidents and mistakes caused when someone who is too ill to work goes in to work anyway. People having to mess around their employer to sort out UC. Landlords having to deal with non-payment of rent. It's so unbelievably shortsighted.

How do you think you will be better off under this policy? Do you think you'll get a refund on your tax because you no longer have to pay us scroungers? Do you think that the tax taken from you will lessen? It won't, the government will spend it on something else they deign to be more important (probably not something useful like the NHS either). Personally, I would far rather my tax (and I have paid into the tax system) was spent on people in need than some other shite.

I don't expect a tax return, taxes are necessary to fund many things including health and education.

It's wasted money I hate. You would have to be awfully naive to believe that every claimant was working their utmost because the majority aren't. Most have worked out ways to be a SAHP, the lowest number of hours they can get away with etc. We shouldn't be paying for people's choices, they should be paying for themselves.

The amounts got so ridiculous that changes were brought in to cap the amount of money people got as it was far more than many workers not to mention the change to paying for two children only as people continued to add to their family knowing they would get more money from the government.

To make out that everyone is working to the max and all the children were born into self financing families is quite frankly ludicrous.

So yes, if UC forces responsibility on people to support themselves and their families then it's a good thing. Something needed to be done. They are not saying there is an end to all welfare, just that people have to step up themselves.

What's soul destroying is how many people have been keeping their eye on 'benefits abusers' and not on the House of Lords, MP's still abusing the expenses systems, large corporation abusing the system to the tune of billions in tax they don't pay and the government's collusion with them to systematically erode employee rights

Yes. Pension fund raiders. Bank bailouts. LIBOR rate minipulation. PIP. Fraud.

For ten years we have given them money at 0% which they have used to build a new consumer debt bubble. Destroying savings. Private owners soaking the Councils for onerous social rents.

Scroungers indeed.

Yellow then why not focus on fair rent and decent wages?

This is being done on purpose throughout the benefits system as a way to try and "motivate people" into not being poor.

I think "motivation" is just the media friendly tagline. It's a starkly obvious fallacy to think low paying jobs don't need to be done, so how can we sustainably "motivate" people to leave them? Someone has to do those jobs. The Tories may be many things but they are definitely not stupid. No, the true purpose of this is punishment and persecution; inflicting hardship for no other reason than being a different class.

Yellow I understand the emotions behind what you're saying, but even if the majority of people claiming benefits are fiddling the system, what do you think should happen to the children of these families? Strip the families of the money they've been fiddling from the government and their children go hungry/cold/unclothed.

Some people just lack the empathy and compassion

And we call those people Tories.

that's shocking about the tax rebate being treated as income. It goes against common sense.

It is though isn't it? Had the employee not been over-taxed that money would have stayed put in their pay packet as earnings. Unless I've got this mixed up.

As I understand it (please do correct me if I’m wrong) there was one fairly major loophole in the old WTC system which allowed perfunctory Facebook selling businesses and the like to count as the required 16 hours work regardless of lack of income. This wasn’t fraud, because it was within the rules, but it was exploiting the system and also arguably led to an increase in MLMs which is good for no one except their US founders.

However closing that loophole was an easy fix, and has already been done under the current system (to the detriment of people who were legitimately building up a viable business).

The other major problem was the CTC/WTC overpayments which could be huge. That did need more systematic change, but it needed to be done better than this.

A tax rebate is income, it was taken as tax in error and returned. Had it not been taken it would have been income so it doesn't change that fact when given back.

Yellow then why not focus on fair rent and decent wages?

It's not that simple though is it, the government can't control those things hugely.

We already have a minimum wage and a living wage that a lot of companies moved to. The problem is it might be a living wage for some but somebody that wants to just do sixteen hours a week and have children is wildly different than a single person. Continuing to raise the minimum wage just means all other jobs rise with it as does the cost of everything so it changes little. Jobs that take little or no skill simply can't command a high wage.

Its not doing much to motivate anyone as far as I can see (obviously I don't know everyone so can only speak for a small amount of people).

I have friends who are refusing to take on more hours because they are afraid to rock the boat, friends staying in bad relationships because they are afraid of being without money for weeks and weeks, friends who are studying and are likely to have to quit once universal credit is in full swing, because earning money now is more important than bettering yourself for later.

Me, its not motivating me at all. I can't make my children not disabled, I can't make my ex not a knob, I can't make us as a family not have to go to the hospital several times a month for various appointments. I have no family to back me up if I need help, its just me.

As it stands I'm scared of any type of change that may prompt a move over to UC which, unless I am one of the very lucky ones will almost certainly have a knock on effect on our lives that will take months at the very least to recover from.

This is the reality- its not all scummy mummies sat at home with their hair extensions and acrylics watching Jezza while drinking Lambrini.

I do think it will force people to better their circumstances and the loopholes of not working, part time jobs and using the guise of self employed will eventually close.
This is a nonsense. If you're on the fiddle (and the numbers are extraordinarily low, then you'll remain on the fiddle. Apart from which where are these magical jobs?
As for not feeding children or buying uniform, rather than blame the system blame the parent. Who'd let their child down that much rather than step up.
Ahh, the old sort yourself out for the sake of the kids argument. That would be why Refuges are full, because the women there sorted themselves out for the sake of the kids. You do know that you have to pay rent in a refuge?
I don't agree with people choosing to live in large houses or expenses areas where they can't cover the rent or need it paying as they refuse to work or up their hours.
Or landlords charging extortionate rents because they can.

Yellow - jobs that take little or no skill csnt command a high wage

Not a high wage, no, but what about a living wage? The cost of everything has gone up, how do you expect cleaners or shop workers to pay rent/bills/food if their pay hasn't risen in line with inflation? Rent on a room in a house in London is more than rent in a three bed house up here where I am in North Wales... and it's all very well saying move, but last time I moved it cost me £1.5k in deposit and a months rent in advance and £150 (if not more) in letting agent fees. That's without the cost of actual moving.

Not even 'low skill' jobs. I'm a teacher, with our pay freeze and inflation, I read somewhere that in real terms teachers are down on average £3k a year. Nurses are similar. £3k a year is a lot to lose without physically doing anything to lose it.

Oh, and yellow, are you aware that UC includes people with disabilities. Every week the Crisis unit near my City has to call a taxi to take someone for their UC mentor meeting. You know, someone so mentally ill that they're in Crisis. Not even the same person, it's a Crisis unit, so high turnover.
Every week the block of sheltered housing in the next town to me has to take someone along to their UC interview. People with severe mental health problems, people who can barely walk, one woman with paranoid schizophrenia. A man who can't sit without pain for more than ten minutes, whose pain is exacerbated by being in a car, who walks with sticks, who regularly tries to kill himself. That's what's happening to those you may well consider to be genuine. They are being penalised for the sake of a mythical benefits monster created by government and media, of which you a part, having fallen for the myth. Those who support this torture are part of a regime that inflicts the torture. Yes I know it seems over the top, but I witness this, I live this. I too warned about it in 2010, on these very boards. I was another who was told to stop being silly.

One of the primary reasons for the original Child Benefit Scheme was to make sure that the children were not penalised for the decisions or life styles of the parents.

If you stop benefit at 2 children, or mess with payments to the degree this proposal seems to plan, the people who are affected most are the children. Oddly enough, it normally means that you simply create a new generation of people who cannot dig their way out of the situation they are in.

What annoys me most though is that the degree of focus on "benefit cheats" - the amount of "false" claims has been shown to be tiny compared to those who actually need the money to look after them and their children. It is a fallacy pushed by the (mainly) right-wing press and becomes self-fulfilling. People are now so conditioned to "benefit scroungers and cheats" that few people actually look at the real statistics behind it. ANY scrounging is too much, but in the same way that ANY tax dodging is too much. However, having "scroungers" in the public mindset makes it much easier to target the poor who cannot really fight back".

Sometimes I find myself not liking the way we treat people very much :-(

This scares me. I work 2 self employed jobs and the amount I get paid each week can vary enormously depending on how many clients I have. I get WTC and CTC. Not loads but without it I'd have to look at what I could cut back on. Maintenance from my ex is hit and miss depending on his circumstances. If I get moved to UC then I think it would be easier to stop claiming and go without some things.

Jemima do you only have one or two dc?

Yes I do want to do just sixteen hours a week as I have children. I simply can't afford to do any more with the price of childcare and have parents who can't help as one is in ill health.

No point saying I shouldn't have had children as that horse has bolted. Not that I would have but worth noting that here in NI abortion is a no-go area so any woman finding themselves in an unwanted pregnancy situation or unable to afford a child can't exactly take that route either. Well you can run the risk of procuring pills online and possibly finding yourself in court about it.

By the by do you know what would enable me to work more? Having an ex that either paid decently towards the dc and childcare or sharing care - but sure it's the single parent's fault for trying to do the most they can.

If I get moved to UC then I think it would be easier to stop claiming and go without some things.

Bingo! Someone has worked out one of the driving forces behind UC.