to think this country used to be bloody barbaric?

[MycatsaPirate]

We have Gunpowder on tv at the moment and it's brutal!

Thank goodness we have evolved over the last several hundred years and no longer think public torture and murder is a good way of dealing with things.

I actually feel quite sick. The horrific ways they dreamt up to kill people are unbelievable.

Witches in the medieval were accused of heresy rather than witch craft scotland used to burn them iirc

Lets not forgot that large parts of America STILL have the death penalty. Hopefully in years to come the idea of electrocuting people or injecting them with poison will be discussed with such horror

People took the underground to the last public execution in 1868 ...

londonist.com/london/undergroundtoapublichanging

I'd like to think that people today are innately better than that. But it's hard to see it at times

I had a relative involved in the Gunpowder Plot, interesting to watch their portrayal on TV.
You do know the British were complicit in torturing people in Guantanamo Bay?

I believe one of the reasons that Margaret of Clitheroe refused to plead is that her children would have been questioned, and therefore perhaps tortured - as part of her trial

What is so terrible about any of these things (to me) is that someone, somewhere, sat down and thought them all up. 'Hey, I know what we could do to this person...'. That capacity for awful cruelty might be less socially acceptable these days, but it lurks inside all of us somewhere.

Every country has its share of barbarism.

And in the twentieth century, acts of enormous cruelty were done in the name of no religion. It's very complacent to make sweeping value judgements about past times like yours.

Thank you, Toad.

Religion isn't responsible for every horror under the sun.

I am just amazed that so many people didn't already know huge chunks of our history!

I have always thought that if I had to be executed and could choose the method, Guillotine would be my choice. Nothing quicker and less painful.

Appalling acts of humanity have often been done in Religions' name

You are right - there have been MANY acts of humanity in religion's name, though I wouldn't call the appalling myself.

Faith has produced both the worst and the very best of human action.

I have always thought that if I had to be executed and could choose the method, Guillotine would be my choice.

As a noble (facing up) or peasant (facing down) ?

"Ok, we have evolved and thankfully don't go in for torturing people to death in front of a baying mob or jailing people for not going to church but really, we are not covered in glory are we?"

You might find the book Discipline and Punish by Michel Foucault an interesting read on this. It suggests a very dark side to apparently more "humane" punishments.

(Not to mention the fact that torture has been perpetrated by modern British representatives of the state - waterboarding and electrocution were allegedly used in Northern Ireland, not to mention possible collusion of British people in torture happening in places like Guantanemo).

If it wasn't religion it would be Colour/gender/sexual behaviour/hair colour/disability.

Look at the lynchings and torture of Black people in the US, ignored until the 60's, then just done in a more private place. There are forms of torture going on when a Black man is arrested (some to the death and luckily caught on CCTV) but still gotten away with.

We have families that still carry out honour killings, involving smashing the Women to bits and burning.

Some of the stories coming out of North Korea are horrific, especially the things inflicted on innocent pregnant Women and children. That isn't religion.

No, that’s power and money, the other great scourges of humanity.

JonSnowsWife weren't the Pharisees Jewish? Don't think they were the followers of Christ?
And there is a strong feminist case to say that the persecution of witches was also a tool to subjugate uppity women.(see also the Daily Mail and its treatment of strong, successful women who don't conform to its template) not called a witch hunt for nothing.
Anyway, what this all teaches us is that humankind has no bounds in its capacity for cruelty as well as compassion.

Not to mention the fact that torture has been perpetrated illegally by modern British representatives of the state

Torture has never been legal in English law (the King in those days was above the law). That said, good luck with any remedy.

What is important to remember though is this was not evil criminals doing these things - it was the government, the justice system. They were the ones obeying the law. Same as the guards marching people into gas chambers - they were the law abiding people.

It was the people it was done to or the ones helping them that were the 'criminals'

I also imagine future generations will judge us very harshly for allowing climate change or third world poverty to continue when we could stop it if the political will was there and we really wanted to. How many children die each day because of lack of clean water????

I'm not being sanctimonious about this - I'm not breaking into a sweat to stop it either but im not sure it makes me any less barbaric.

I may be wrong - they may judge us harshly for something that seems completely acceptable nowadays like putting small children into full time nursery or allowing pet ownership or having prisons or anything.

Yeah.
I find it a bit of a head fuck to think that those people in the crowd grinning away and holding up their kids to watch could be our ancestors.
And we don't differ genetically from them in any significant way, the same as we are basically the same makeup as the nazis who supported death camps, or the crowds who filled auditoriums to watch gladiators fight to the death, or the villagers throughout history who slaughtered the neighbouring village, or the the people burning villages in Rohingya, or those committing atrocities in Syria.

Yes, there are sociopaths, but when you look at this kind of violence and the people who support it, most of them are not sociopaths; there are too many of them.
We think we are different, because we have never been tested. We could tell ourselves that we could never be capable of such horror.
But beneath the surface of every civilisation is a mob, straining to break out and it doesn't take that much to show it's face.

Ordinary people (not monsters or sociopaths) are capable of the most horrific things imaginable. And some of the most wonderful things too.

Had to leave the room - bile

Obviously hanging is awful but surely it kills you so you're not alive for the drawing and quartering part? Or am I wrong?

Hanging can be done with a knot in the right place to break your neck, or it can be done by slow strangulation. Guess which one they used?

Some of the stories coming out of North Korea are horrific, especially the things inflicted on innocent pregnant Women and children. That isn't religion.

I would argue that it is religion, just not called that.

Some of the most heinous acts in history have been done in the name of one god of another.

Many heinous acts have been carried out in the name of political ideals.... it doesn’t mean all political ideals are wrong! There are arguments against religion, but this is a weak one though.

I think it is far too simplistic to blame everything on religion; even when things appeared to be caused by religion, they were often also caused by fear, the settling of scores, jealousy, financial gain, and political wrangling.
Even in the dramatised gunpowder plot you can see there are other factor at play beyond religious difference: Paranoia over seditious catholics, the threat of rival foreign claims to the throne, and political manouevering within the royal court.

I quite liked some of the subtle humour in it though...
Especially the wrong 'un complaining that "We are English! We can't let Spain make our laws!"

@Acadia I did lots about the persecution of catholics ( both historically and the catholic-Protestant Irish Divide) in school .... mostly I’d say year 8-9 x

@bridgetoc don’t be offensive. I can watch most shows and learn about some absolutely horrible periods in history and be fine.... it is not a symptom of ‘snowflake syndrome’ to not enjoy or be able to watch the simulated crushing of a woman to death.... it’s actually normal.