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Original poster

to think this country used to be bloody barbaric?

178 replies

MycatsaPirate · 21/10/2017 21:42

We have Gunpowder on tv at the moment and it's brutal!

Thank goodness we have evolved over the last several hundred years and no longer think public torture and murder is a good way of dealing with things.

I actually feel quite sick. The horrific ways they dreamt up to kill people are unbelievable.

OP posts:
VeniVidiWeeWee · 23/10/2017 01:05

OP
Please look at fadedred's post upthread. Pressing was used to try to get a person to enter a plea. NOT to obtain a confession. There is a difference.

Toadinthehole · 23/10/2017 01:41

BlondeB83

And in the twentieth century, acts of enormous cruelty were done in the name of no religion. It's very complacent to make sweeping value judgements about past times like yours.

Toadinthehole · 23/10/2017 01:53

VeniVidiWeeWee,

I have a really interesting book given to me by an old lawyer. It's called "Judge Jeffreys" by E Montgomery Hyde, and it's about probably the most infamous senior judge in English history. It's full of interesting detail about criminal procedure in the seventeenth century. It's correct that pressing was used to elicit a plea (that's where "pressing" a person for an answer comes from so I believe) but other kinds of torture were used to obtain confessions and other kinds of evidence.

England probably compared quite well. One of the first things James I did on becoming king of England was to have a thief summarily executed, ie, without trial. Scots law allowed this, but English law didn't, and he got into some hot water over it.

Shadow666 · 23/10/2017 01:54

This is why I never celebrate 5th November. It’s all so brutal and horrible.

Arealhumanbeing · 23/10/2017 01:55

VeniVidiWeeWee

Yes. The difference is massive, isn’t it?

gluteustothemaximus · 23/10/2017 02:01

Yes. And we were also thick as pig shit.

With suspected witches, wasn’t it if they drowned, they were innocent, but if they didn’t drown they were clearly a witch and then burned to death Hmm

HelenaDove · 23/10/2017 02:05

"witches" were women persecuted by misogynists like Matthew Hopkins and then emotionally and physically abused and tortured.

Italiangreyhound · 23/10/2017 02:28

If you like legal history etc Garrow's Law is sometimes on late on 'Drama'.

It's amazing and awful the laws, what little was needed to convict and how corrupt it all was. It is based on real cases. It's not gory!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrow%27s_Law

McTufty · 23/10/2017 03:06

It was brutal and graphic but I actually found it quite eye opening as I had never really thought about what happened to someone hung drawn and quartered. Also makes you sympathise with why the plotters were so angry.

lilly0 · 23/10/2017 03:07

Not just the u.k pretty much everywhere was barbaric in history some even are today, some mners live very sheltered lives. In Japan in the time of the samurai they had seppuku , if you disgraced yourself and your family you were expected to stab yourself in the stomach and disembowel yourself until death which I imagine takes a lot of courage and worse than someone else doing it to you. If you didn't stab yourself you would be disemboweled and your family would lose honour and be stripped of rank.

WashingMatilda · 23/10/2017 08:05

I've got in from night shift and am watching it now. Actually starting to feel a bit queasy Envy

I personally agree with PP's about religion being overwhelmingly at the root of atrocities across the world, both now and in the past.

I went down to the oubliette in Warwick Castle and I could only bear it for 30 seconds, it was absolutely horrendous.
I think I remember being told that the name came from the French word oublier - to forget, because prisoners would literally be put there and forgotten.

The Warwick castle one also happened to be directly underneath the servant lavoratories and would have that pour into them as they sat in complete darkness dying.

Just doesn't bear thinking about.

TheNaze73 · 23/10/2017 08:09

I thought it was great that there was some balance to this programme. Much better than the mad catholic story we were fed at school.
Brutal in places but, highly watchable

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 23/10/2017 08:26

The guillotine (which I've forgotten how to spell) which we see now as barbaric, was then seen as radical, a scientific solution to execution, quick, fool proof and capable of almost a product line of death.
People must have lived in a constant state of paranoia, even Elizabeth 1, was accused of plotting against Mary.

BlondeB83 · 23/10/2017 08:32

My opinion on religion is my own and I stand by it. Awful acts have been done for other reasons of course but religion has been accredited to so many by so many awful people that I question it’s validity in society.

I was brought up Christian by the way.

gamerwidow · 23/10/2017 08:32

All death penalties are barbaric though. Even lethal injection can be painful and terrifying. There is no ‘nice’ way to execute someone and although modern death penalties may look less horrific they are morally just as bad.

BlondeB83 · 23/10/2017 08:35

its - autocorrect!

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 23/10/2017 08:35

It's probably for the best if snowflakes don't watch it though.... oh go away Bridge, people can choose to watch they want. Don't get all superior about it.

BlondeB83 · 23/10/2017 08:35

Agree gamer.

Brahumbug · 23/10/2017 08:38

There is a massive difference between pressing in order to kill someone and pressing to obtain a plea. You could stop the pressing anytime by agreeing to enter a plea. At least today if you refuse to plea then a not guilty is entered on your behalf.

Brahumbug · 23/10/2017 08:40

Witches in England were not burnt, they were always hung.

JonSnowsWife · 23/10/2017 08:45

And in the twentieth century, acts of enormous cruelty were done in the name of no religion. It's very complacent to make sweeping value judgements about past times like yours.

They're not sweeping statements. They are true. Romans didnt kill Jesus. Christians (the Pharisees) did when they shouted "crucify him" and that they wanted Barabbas instead.

Appalling acts of humanity have often been done in Religions' name. Witches were a product of their time, but they were hunted and persecuted by people claiming to do God's work and root out the evil, although I'm sure the big sums of money helped them think they were keeping a clean conscience.

Even the person who swung the axe or tied the noose often had a family to feed. They did it for the money mostly though of course, but Religion still often played a very big part.

EdgarAllanPO · 23/10/2017 08:45

Unfortunately Jacobean drama is full of these scenes. The duchess of Malfi is particularly graphic and not for the faint hearted. But it's a reflection of the times.
Not sure if I will watch the rest of gunpowder, I want to but found it distressing.

JonSnowsWife · 23/10/2017 08:46

Witches in England were not burnt, they were always hung.

Always? Including the medievil times?

JonSnowsWife · 23/10/2017 08:49

You could stop the pressing anytime by agreeing to enter a plea

If you entered a plea didn't your children disinherit as you'd have every assett stripped from you? Which means you'd be leaving your family with nothing. Think I'd refuse as a big final 'fuck you' to them too.

WetsTheVet · 23/10/2017 08:51

I think the interesting thing is to realise the absolute control religion had over the country at the time. Even today, the most barbaric practices are often carried out in the name of religion.