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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To urge you all to write to your MPs?

124 replies

OrderMeACurry · 21/10/2017 17:30

I know this has been done before but I was inspired to start this thread whilst in the middle of writing yet another bloody letter to mine after he decided he was going to ignore my last two.

Now that Theresa May has announced that she backs the gender identity bill and wants to de-medicalise trans sexuality (great, thanks for that! Hmm) I really do fear that it is very highly likely that this will go through.

So if you've written to your MP already, please do so again and if you haven't then it would be great if you did. This really is getting urgent now.

Now if you excuse me, I must go bang my head against a wall.

OP posts:
Brittbugs80 · 22/10/2017 11:34

Forgive me for any ignorance that may appear in my post. I may pop over to feminism chat to clarify certain points but I've already clashed a few times with one poster who refuses to do nothing but bait me as I can't possibly be a feminist as I took my DH name when we married!

Anyway.

Is there a standard letter to send to MPs and is there a deadline for the letter to be sent?

Secondly, I (unless I've missed the point) think that any hate or abuse to those transitioning should be a hate crime, however I don't agree that you can fill a form in and decide to be identifiable as female without going through the steps. If this happened, does this mean that those who have body dysmorphia will miss out on critical support they need to help them cope with how they are feeling etc?

I tried talking about it last night with friends and DH and explained how by this happening, men can fill a form in, identify as female and will then be able to access all woman only spaces such as changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards, hostels etc. They mainly replied that it would work both ways so a female could fill the form in, identify as male and enter male only areas.

No one could see or understand the problems and it came across as though they thought I hated men and that I wasn't being a true feminist as I'm implying that men are more intimidating and stronger and that no feminist thinks that.

DH thinks eventually there will be four genders/sexes and it will be biological female, biological male, male to female,female to male and that there will be changing areas etc accomodating all of these so doesn't really see a problem as such.

I'm struggling honestly to see how people I've spoken to in real life don't see this as a problem and some think it's just a trend and won't actually amount to anything.

I'm not sure the point of this post, other than I don't know where to turn for unbiased, fair and factual information!

Rumandraisin1 · 22/10/2017 12:01

Is there a standard letter to send to MPs and is there a deadline for the letter to be sent?

This has some key points to include in a letter:

drive.google.com/file/d/0B4hJVribfFSURF82YXlOYlpPOFk/view

And this thread includes some sample letters:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2995738-Gender-ID-bill-Gender-Critical-To-Do-List

I don't think there's an exact deadline - The government have announced that they are planning to introduce this legislation but I don't think there's a date for it to go before parliament yet. An Early Day Motion was submitted recently by a group of MPs who are trying to push this and other changes through quickly but apparently the Motion is unlikely to get debated so I think it will just happen whenever the government decides.

theftbyfinding · 22/10/2017 12:06

Thanks for the further info, have arranged to meet my Tory MP next week. Not happy at all.

Backingvocals · 22/10/2017 12:07

I wrote to my MP - Mark Field - and got no reply. I will write again.

Backingvocals · 22/10/2017 12:13

Please please also sign this petition.

It’s really horrendous how few women seem to be aware of this. The risks are significant and this has all been dreamt up without asking women.

petition

RealWomanOhYes · 22/10/2017 12:52

Can't link currently but there are also a number of surveys, aimed at trans people only, that ask about their experiences, these surveys will form some input into further legislation.

As I am apparantly trans according to stonewalls definition I have completed the surveys a number of times. You get a space towards the end for further comments ;)

RealWomanOhYes · 22/10/2017 12:57

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/national-lgbt-survey

Survey closed now by the looks of it.

Bucketsandspoons · 22/10/2017 13:12

I just spent over an hour writing this:

Dear MP

I recently wrote to you to ask if you were aware that the government were consulting with and funding a group that openly advocated violence against women. and you haven't bothered to answer yet, but anyway... Having been shocked by this I have now read in some depth about the coming Gender ID bill and its possible outcomes. While I applaud the determination of Mrs May, Mr Corbyn and their MPs to further inclusion and reduce discrimination in our society, may I ask for your help with several elements of this bill?

There seems to be some confusion regarding the terminology, with the words gender and sex being conflated. If gender – a fluid, evolving personal choice of expression that should be free to all without fear or discrimination – simply replaces sex as the protected characteristic, then as a side effect all women and girls immediately lose the legal protections surrounding sex. Sexual assault and rape victims and the two women who are murdered by men, usually partners, per week in the UK, and young girls being taken out of the UK for FGM to take place, do not identify into that role through choice, and they cannot identify out of it to escape the fate inflicted on them solely because of their biology. Like the very distressing case of the transman raped in the back of a London taxi, who told the police ‘I kept telling him I was a man’. Surely it is possible to legally protect people’s right to express their gender freely without stereotypes or discrimination, alongside sex as a protected characteristic?

As you will be aware, Stonewall and trans organisations incorporate many groups under their umbrella in addition to people with gender dysphoria. These include cross dressers and those who enjoy autogynephilia, all of whom under the proposed legislation will be free to self identify into women’s spaces and have their presence there protected by law. While I have seen denial that autogynephilila exists (sexual arousal at dressing oneself, presenting as and enacting a feminine role amongst women particularly in personal and women only spaces) a search engine quickly finds forums of men who self identify as autogynephilic, and a huge amount of autogynephilic pornography (sissification). While adults’ sexual choices are wholly their own, currently a person with male biology exposing themselves to women or children for gratification are committing a sexual offence. As you will know, exposure is frequently seen in the early stages of sexual offending, which often escalates upwards through more serious offending and often leads in time to actual physical assault. Under the proposed legislation, a man will need only to self declare that he is a woman at times when it is convenient, and will be free to expose himself in any public changing room among women and children under full protection of the law, since he will be deemed a woman, changing among other women. Indeed the women and children will be guilty of a hate crime if they react to this as being inappropriate or threatening in a changing room, where as if the same man does it on the street he would be arrested.

Under the current proposed wording of the legislation, any woman or child using a public toilet or changing room would be available for use as a prop in someone else’s sexual experience, or involved in actual acts such as exposure. What are your feelings about this radical and slightly incoherent reconstruction of the law on sexual offences and about the vulnerability of women and children in this situation? Do you feel that a law meant to protect and support those with gender dysphoria should be so loosely worded that it can be taken full advantage of by any man who wishes to gain access to women’s spaces for sexual expression or offending? Do you feel that vulnerable people with gender dysphoria will in fact benefit or be protected by a law that is well intentioned but in fact lays itself so open to exploitation by others, or that they will benefit from what is likely to be strong public reaction to events that may come from dishonest people exploiting this legislation? Or that many trans people who are themselves raising these concerns are being dismissed? (I believe the word is ‘truscum’)

If I may draw your attention to the prisons’ report to the government on the sudden wave of referrals from male prisoners with no history of gender dysphoria wishing to transition: the reasons given by these men are quite open, and include increased access to victims and the additional privileges attached to transitioning. The prison service also reported that serious sexual offenders made up a very large and disproportionate part of these referrals. It seems at best extremely naive to believe based on this evidence, that sexual offenders will not take full advantage of the freedoms that self identification will permit. I understand Maria Miller’s response to this question has been that while this is likely, the rights of 600,000 trans people cannot be ignored. I agree they cannot be ignored, but is it really acceptable for this to be at the collateral damage to the rights of 30 million women and girls in the UK not to be victims of sexual abuse and violence? Is there no really no better way to achieve this?

Considering the extreme effort many sexual offenders will go to in order to groom victims, in particular child victims, what increased immediate access will a sexual offender have if they can merely enter a changing room at their local pool to watch children undress and shower rather than spend weeks on the internet coaxing a child to photograph themselves? Or to follow a woman into the privacy of a bathroom? You will no doubt have heard of and may well support the #Metoo campaign. May I ask what thorough investigation of safeguarding, connected with the police and the prison service’s wealth of data, and the years of intense government effort around the creation of better child safeguarding, has been carried out in the formation of this proposed legislation? There seems to be some serious cognitive dissonance taking place.

This proposed legislation, while obviously positive in intent, in its current wording creates a number of serious questions to be answered, and so far the answers are vague if they exist at all. It disproportionately affects women and children, and will inevitably lead to some very serious unintended consequences for those groups in its current form. Once it is enshrined in law, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible for a government to undo. For this reason I would ask for your insights on the above questions, and I hope very much that this legislation will be responsibly delayed by parliament while a thorough investigation of possible outcomes and effects of the proposed wording takes place, with the results reported back to the house for full discussion.

Yrs, Buckets

Many many many elements missed, but I'm trying to keep my letters shortish, specifically to a couple of facts at a time rather than a huge rant, and the hope is to prod the wretched man to at least think a bit.

........And then I went to double check my facts on 'truscum' (trans people who believe that trans means gender dysphoria and are about as hated as terfs are) and went back down the rabbit hole of the headfuck that this is, and realised that no doubt my MP and probably everyone else involved in this bill knows perfectly well that the people they're enabling don't HAVE gender dysphoria, they just want to do whatever they want to do to be 'their true authentic selves' and are fine with that.

I'm seriously getting to the point of being so depressed about this that I'm losing the will to bother fighting. Sad This is not a society I want to live in.

Datun · 22/10/2017 13:35

I’m seriously considering writing to my MP to tell him I am a male sexual predator and can they hurry up with this law please.

RealWomanOhYes · 22/10/2017 13:39

Datun I like your thinking. Can feel an anonymous letter coming on.......

Terfing · 22/10/2017 13:45

Yes, as sexual predators, let's thank them for this new law! Wink

FuckShitJackFairy · 22/10/2017 14:07

Place marking to remind me to do this again. Thanks op

FusionChefGeoff · 22/10/2017 14:14

Just posted the following on my FB to try to summarise and raise awareness

There is something very, very frightening going through parliament which needs to be shouted about.

Soon, if you challenged any of the following situations (ie spoke up and said, excuse me, I’m not happy about this can you leave / stop) it will be a hate crime:
⁃ men in women’s changing rooms / hospital wards / prisons / refuges / rape crisis centres
⁃ men competing in women’s sports
⁃ men performing medical examinations on women even if they would prefer a woman (eg gynaecological exams / smear tests)

A bill is going through parliament (backed by both Teresa May and Jeremy Corbyn) which will allow anyone to legally identify as the opposite sex with no need for hormones, surgery, legal process or to even ‘present’ ie outwardly live or look like that gender.

Gender Identity (ie what you say you are) will be a protected characteristic the same as race, religion, disability and gender assignment currently are.

You can’t refuse to share changing rooms with black people, so you can’t refuse a medical examination on the grounds that the doctor / nurse is a man who identifies as a woman.

Most men are lovely, and have no need or want to do any of these things.

Most transgender people (estimated 1% of UK population) are already allowed to do this after a medical diagnosis for gender dysphoria and living as their identified gender for 2 yrs. (See above, gender assignment is already a protected characteristic)

A small minority of men are not lovely and will take advantage of this law to intimidate, abuse and threaten women. AND WE WONT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

Indecent exposure will no longer be a crime if it’s committed in a space where being naked is acceptable eg changing rooms.

Not to mention a man just sitting fully clothed in a women’s changing room, watching.

Women’s teams / sport will cease to exist as self identified male bodied athletes (obviously) take over.

Women cannot be assured of safe women only spaces anywhere. Some women will stop going to these previously safe spaces as a result - thus infringing the rights, freedom and movement of women (50% of the population).

Statistics about men and women (crime, employment, achievement, wealth, opportunities, education etc) currently used to push forward funding, schemes and programmes designed to improve equality will cease to be relevant. Thus those programmes will struggle to exist.

This is very likely to succeed as both major party leaders are backing it.

This is not a joke, it’s actually happening right now.

PLEASE WRITE TO YOUR MP. Particularly if they are a woman.

This link will tell you who is your MP
<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.theyworkforyou.com/" target="_blank">www.theyworkforyou.com

This needs proper debate and awareness before we rip up the rights and freedoms that women have fought for through previous centuries.

The full bill is here
<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/commons/early-day-motions/edm-detail1/?edmnumber=355&session=2017-19" target="_blank">https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/commons/early-day-motions/edm-detail1/?edmnumber=355&session=2017-19

Datun · 22/10/2017 17:55

FusionChefGeoff

Excellent. Shoots straight from the hip.

It would be hard to imagine that you could get any kind of backlash. But I’m not holding my breath.

If so. Remain calm. Ask them to address the points you’ve made.

If anyone insists that transwomen are women and therefore none of this matters, keep asking the questions. Ask about the fact that they retain male pattern violence.

And anyway, what is to stop predators and violent men identifying as trans, if all the criteria is removed. With no need to change appearance.

Ask what women can do. Remain calm and rational and always remember that you are talking to far more people than that one person. Let the discourse between the two of you reveal the flaws in the ideology for everyone else.

The only way you can do that is to keep them talking.

FusionChefGeoff · 22/10/2017 18:50

Not 1 single response.

Not a like, not a comment. Nothing.

Fucking terrifying and depressing in equal measures.

I think it's a mixture of

  • people being so disenfranchised that they turn off at any mention of politics
  • not understanding that it's real, however clear my post was
  • fear of offending someone
Datun · 22/10/2017 18:57

It might be useful if you can get someone you know to comment. People are scared. If you got someone you know to say I completely agree, I had no idea this was happening, it might spark a snowball effect.

Incitatus · 22/10/2017 19:32

I’ve just explained to dh about what this means and he said it’s “creepy” and “perverse”. He said that it’s ridiculous and women will end up having to self identify as disabled and use the disabled facilities for toilet and changing. He didn’t have any suggestions as to what woman fleeing domestic violence or rape would have to do.

I suppose if a raped woman objected to a trans person examining her in a medical capacity, the trans person would have to call the police and have her cautioned Hmm

Datun · 22/10/2017 19:38

And of course, no nice, decent man would ever do that. But then again, no nice decent man would demand they access women spaces, despite the objections of those women.

2017 and, guess what, no does not mean no anymore.

Incitatus · 22/10/2017 19:49

This is just crazy.

Females, as a sex are being erased in effect. What are we now? A third sex?

Is human stupidity built in to the evolutionary process in order to put the brakes on our behaviour or something?

Does this represent the ultimate blow in the war against women? Perhaps they’re not so stupid after all. It’s a masterstroke isn’t it?

Datun · 22/10/2017 21:06

It’s a masterstroke isn’t it?

Whatever transsexual used to mean, it’s become highly toxic. Every misogynist and MRA in the country is jumping on the bandwagon.

The word terf has now become total justification for violence.

Rumandraisin1 · 22/10/2017 21:34

Whatever transsexual used to mean, it’s become highly toxic. Every misogynist and MRA in the country is jumping on the bandwagon.

And many transsexuals are dismissed and reviled within the new trans community as 'truscum' while this new breed of transactivists rely upon the public perception of transsexuals to further an agenda for different groups of people altogether.

Datun · 22/10/2017 21:37

Nailed it Rumandraisin1.

GetYourRocksOff · 22/10/2017 22:01

I really want to post about this on my Facebook but feel afraid to do so.

Datun · 22/10/2017 22:04

GetYourRocksOff

I don’t blame you. It’s difficult.

Datun · 22/10/2017 22:09

GetYourRocksOff

You could be utterly disingenuous and go in all wide-eyed and innocent with a question.

Why all these women being called terfs? What’s going on?

Or just talk about the self identification law that means anyone can choose their own sex. Don’t even mention trans.

If someone says it’s for transpeople, say well what about anyone else?

You don’t have to take on the fight. Just talk about as though you don’t know anything.

Some people have reported they got a horrible backlash, others say that women come out of the woodwork and agreed.

Swipe left for the next trending thread