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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Embryos in storage

127 replies

APomInOz · 21/10/2017 11:42

I realise this might not be the right place to post, but also wary of upsetting other parents or people struggling with fertility.
My situation is: 5/6 years ago I had cancer and had to go through chemo, the doctors advised going through part of the IVF process to store my eggs incase the chemo killed all opportunity of having more kids. Info: I had one child who was 8 months old and I was 36 years old. When we went through the process, they took my husbands sperm and found he had a low sperm count and so decided to make embryos for a better chance. I had to get onto the chemo pretty quickly and this was all pretty rushed and I didn't think things through properly, didn't know the right questions to ask and I suppose we just went with what the doctors suggested.

It turned out that I had 15 embryos, which is a lot.
So problem 1: I have been informed that we now need to consider whether we let them "succumb" or keep storing (there is no option for scientific research). Husband and I have now separated so there is definitely no chance to have another baby (we did actually have another one a year after chemo, naturally). I am very upset to let them go, but can't see the point of keeping them. Ex wants to keep them and his reason is - problem 2: If either of our kids (or his two from previous marriage) have problems having kids, there are embryos to help them. I think this is awful and so wrong and I do not want to do this. Please tell me what you think and with reasons, AIBU??

OP posts:
Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:28

Colin, you are a mine of information, thanks for your help. I will contact the clinic again on Monday and ask many more questions. I seem to trust doctors etc too much and don't question stuff enough, especially on such an important issue. I feel pretty slack.

OP posts:
Rogue1234 · 21/10/2017 13:28

I have donated my eggs. I'm also currently pregnant with our first baby, and we have 3 frozen embryos stored. We know we only want one more child, which potentially (it's unlikely but not impossible!) could mean that we have to make the same decision regarding frozen embryos.

Despite my egg donation and understanding of how tough infertility can be, I would not donate our frozen embryos to another childless couple. I think it is completely different from egg and sperm donation and agree that these would be whole siblings of existing children who have no choice in what you're doing.

I know there are people that will completely disagree with me, but I think it's a shame you're not able to donate them for research (creating them and storing them in the first place would never have been possible without previous research that has been done!) it might have helped you feel that they weren't 'wasted.

Stats vary, but only approx. 70-85% of frozen embryos (depending on which stage they were frozen at) survive the thaw. Less than 40% of FETs will have a confirmed pregnancy, and less than that again will result in live births. I don't know if that's helpful to you, but it does mean that you wouldn't be throwing away 15 potential lives, as a large percentage of them probably wouldn't ever be born even if they were donated.

It's a really tough decision to make which must be even harder when you're at odds with your ex husband over it. I hope you come to a resolution that you can both accept.

Difford · 21/10/2017 13:30

Donating them might not actually be an option. At my clinic you had to be under 30 to be able to donate eggs or embryos.
I have 3 frozen embryos and although I don't want any more children I can't face destroying them so keep paying the charges each year. It'll be out of my hands soon though as I can't store them once I reach 45. It's such a heartbreaking situation and it's unfair to try to make the OP feel even worse about it than she already does.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:33

Rogue, congratulations. Best wishes to you all.

OP posts:
Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:34

Diff, that's another question I should ask. I'm so glad I posted, despite some of the negativity - most, practically all, have been so beautiful and supportive. Big hugs.

OP posts:
MsMims · 21/10/2017 13:41

What a dilemma for you OP. Can totally understand you feeling you couldn’t donate what would essentially be full siblings to your DC, but also the sadness of thawing them. Can’t believe certain people have given you a hard time. Such an emotive issue.

If possible, I’d try to delay the decision a while longer until you feel more at ease with one decision than the other, and also hopefully emotions would be less highly strung with your ex H. Best wishes to you Flowers

Spikeyball · 21/10/2017 13:41

That's a good point Difford. I wouldn't have been allowed to donate mine because of age reasons.

Spikeyball · 21/10/2017 13:45

I had 8 frozen embryos, only 2 survived the defrost and they didn't implant.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:48

I guess that if I donated the embryos, overseas (I'm in Australia, if that helps?) maybe only half will survive??? Oh gosh, I need to think more and ask more questions.

OP posts:
Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:49

Spikey, sorry - was that you? I didn't think , I'm so sorry.

OP posts:
FizzyGreenWater · 21/10/2017 13:54

OP I think I would just park this for another couple of years at least, you are not long separated - it's not the right time to think about it I would say.

Your ex's suggestion is bizarre and totally inappropriate. If that's the level of discussion you are likely to have with him - simply stop talking about it with him.

FizzyGreenWater · 21/10/2017 13:56

I also think it would help to read up on the stats. It ISN'T a case of 15 likely babies. It's 15 embryos, the very first earliest stage of what might become a baby if a lot of circumstances which you have no control over are favourable.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 13:57

Thanks Fizzy, I feel that the clinic weren't understanding of my, or anyone in my situation, and I need more info. I'm glad I posted because I'm collating questions and thoughts and will do research.

OP posts:
Spikeyball · 21/10/2017 14:02

Apominoz, it's ok. They were my own embryos. I already had a successful fresh cycle and I feel lucky for that.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 14:06

Spikey, I'm unsure how the whole cycle works, have you been successful? Much love and hugs

OP posts:
kali110 · 21/10/2017 14:09

have to say I this it's totally heartless to destroy embryos that could help other couples. You know the pain of infertility and you could help other couples but are choosing not to. I can't countenance such selfishness leaving the thread it's too ghastly
What a cruel thing to say
I may never have kids yet i don't think the op should feel guilty Confused or think of all the childless couples Hmm
Op i can't begin to know how you're feeling.
You dont owe anyone anything.
You need to do what's best for you.
I dont know what i'd do if i was in your position. I may think exactly the same wayas you.
Is there anyone more knowledgable you can talk to about this?
As for your exdh idea, there are just no words Shock

Orchid110993 · 21/10/2017 14:10

Not sure if I am correct in this and perhaps someone with more knowledge in the area will come along, but I was also under the impression the you would be ineligible to donate if the cancer you had could be inherited. Obviously this depends on the type of cancer you had but I am sure I have read somewhere that someone unable to donate eggs as their mother or grandmother had cancer. So that might be something else you need to look into, but I could be totally wrong.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 14:12

Thank you Kali
Yes, my exhusband had me wondering if I was the one who was weird. He was the one to tell me to ask about it!!

OP posts:
MaidOfStars · 21/10/2017 14:13

OP, I would delay any decision until things with your ex settle down.

His idea is bonkers. I can't actually see any legal or genetic issue with a woman carrying and parenting a child who was her sibling. But from an ethical/psychological/wellbeing viewpoint, I'd be very surprised if it was approved.

As an aside: It may help some here to know what kind of scientific research happens when embryos are donated? My own work involves using stem cells derived from donated human embryos. Stem cells can turn into any kind of cell in the body. I am trying, and succeeding, to turn them into a particular type of nerve cell. The hope is that if I can work out this process 'in a Petri dish', it may one day be possible to use stem cells to treat nerve damage in people with neurological disorders. The main focus in the field is obviously degenerative brain disorders - Alzheimer's and so on. I study motor nerves - the ones that make you move. One day, I might be able to help people with motor neurone disease and similar.

Working with embryonic stem cells is a privilege, and the scientific community is incredibly grateful to the people who have gifted embryos to allow us to conduct amazing research. Flowers

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 14:14

Orchid ! Another good point! I can't donate blood in Australia because I'm English and lived in England when mad cow disease was rife! And also because of my cancer. Remission 6 years :0)

OP posts:
Orchid110993 · 21/10/2017 14:18

Six years is fantastic, long may it continue Flowers.

Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 14:19

Maid - I think what you do is amazing, you and scientist like you have given us all opportunities and are amazing. This is why donating to research was an option to me.I will ask again.

OP posts:
Original poster
APomInOz · 21/10/2017 14:22

Thank you Orchid

OP posts:
emmyrose2000 · 21/10/2017 14:32

Your husband's idea of giving an embryo to one of his current offspring has to be the most crackpot thing I've ever read on here, and that's saying something.

In your shoes, I wouldn't know what to do either, so would probably end up going for the head in the sand approach for now and continue keeping the embryos frozen. I honestly don't think I could donate them to other couples though, for pretty much the reasons you've listed. I could maybe donate one to my sister if she was absolutely desperate and this was going to be her only chance of having a child, but no, not to a stranger that I'd never hear from again.

bananafish81 · 21/10/2017 14:32

OP just to say I'm sorry you're in such a difficult position. Agree with PP that leaving them for another 5 years and reviewing at the end of the storage limit period

And to those who are glibly chastising you about embryo donation - how dare you criticise someone else's decision. Bravo for you if you had surplus embryos after completing your family and donated them to another couple. But it's disgusting to criticise others for making a different choice

FWIW we don't feel we could donate our embryos either. I would have been delighted to have donated eggs if I'd been eligible - because that's gametes, it's just a raw ingredient to someone else's bun. I wasn't eligible to donate eggs because I have epilepsy and a familial history of breast cancer - so I assume also ineligible to donate embryos as well. However for us we didn't and don't feel we could have a full genetic child somewhere out there in the world - who could turn up on our door aged 18, who if we had been successful in having a child, would be a full sibling.

Unless we can find a surrogate to turn one of our embryos into a person, we will have 5 genetically perfect embryos on ice that we can't do anything with. We plan to donate whatever we have left to medical research (which is an option for us). We had 12 embryos on ice but after testing discarded 6 abnormal ones - so realistically it's unlikely that all 15 would be able to become people (if that's any comfort)

All private clinics have to provide access to specialist fertility counsellors - just something to consider if you think it may be helpful. Good luck.