To be happy it will soon be illegal to smack children?

[speakout]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

Brilliant news.

Lots of people asked "how do you teach children to behave without smacking?", and some of us have politely responded to that question. Then a load of people have piled in calling our responses "nauseatingly smug", "saintly", "fairy tales" and basically bullshit.

I don't think that's been the response to teaching children to behave without smacking, rather it's parenting children without once punishing them in any way, ever, for bad behaviour that I think is what many find so far fetched.

Ole, yes, that is correct. If they are totally calm and do it it seems to be almost more abusive than if they have a moment of being very cross which is common for many parents and smack them and wish they hadn't. I know which I regard as the better parenting - the latter even though I'm not a smacker.

I don't think that's been the response to teaching children to behave without smacking, rather it's parenting children without once punishing them in any way, ever, for bad behaviour that I think is what many find so far fetched.

Quite. I don’t smack my dc but even I thought that was a bit off.

Senecafalls - How does that work for bullying and other types of abuse when a victim does not wish to participate?*
*
I’m not a teacher and have not had experience bullying directly as a parent but I understand from the information we were provided when my kids started school that incidents of bullying have been found to be significantly reduced in schools practicing this approach. I think it is still about trying to get the child who is bullying to develop empathy, perhaps in the use of behaviour contracts, peer discussions and talking circles. That does not necessarily have to involve the child who has been bullied.

coconut "rather it's parenting children without once punishing them in any way, ever, for bad behaviour that I think is what many find so far fetched."

Tough. I don't care if you don't believe me.

My kids have never been punished once at home or at school.

I'm not smug about any aspect of my parenting skills. But I really have never punished my children.

I had severe issues as a child, smacking, punishments of various kinds, and that led to a very troubled teenage time, and leaving home early, and into abusive relationships.

I have read many books about talking to children, and getting the best out of them, recognising negative emotions, and how to discipline without punishment.

It works. As a result of no punishments, there is very very little bad behaviour of any kind, as my kids know any mistakes they make, will not be punished. They talk a lot about things, and tell me often that other kids in their class wouldn't dream of telling their parents these same things.

It is not by any means smug or far fetched. We just talk. A lot.

My SIL believed in punishments, and was constantly taking things away, limiting screen time, taking away favourite activities, and both her children were very badly behaved, so clearly it didn't work. Not only that, they were liars. To avoid punishment, they learnt to lie, not learn how to be good/decent human beings.

I feel very very lucky however, as I have large age gaps between my children, and Boy, Girl, Boy. As a result, they don't fight, or squabble as there's nothing to squabble over.

I think as a parent, we may need to use various techniques and it's not one size fits all. All children are different. Also, we can all be the perfect parent when we're all calm and nothing stressful is going on, but it's not easy when life is shit, and things are going wrong and something is just the last straw.

Again, nothing talking can't fix.

If a child has hit a sibling, get them to write an apology (if they are old enough to write), do something nice for them, make something nice for them etc ....get the punishment to fit the crime.

Get them to see what they did was horrible, and they made that person feel bad. I just don't always see how an example like that, results in no TV time. It just builds resentment for the sibling, and doesn't fix the problem that hitting is wrong.

Again, my SIL's kids hit each other all the time. So much resentment built up, and then they would hit each other without anyone seeing, and then lie about who did what so then the punishment wouldn't happen, as no one knew who to believe.

We all have unique circumstances though, don't we, so I'm not judging. But smacking for me, that's very black and white. It's just plain wrong.

I don't punish children either but I am not sure how helpful these threads ever are. We all differ. Our children all differ.

Smacking is often illegal already if it leaves a mark. It sould be entirely illegal in the UK and I hope we move to that.

If you feel cross with your children leave the room and hit the pillow. That of course is easier said than done for most of us.

gluteustothemaximus your early experiences are very similar to mine, as is the path that led you to your parenting style.

My" discipline" techniques started when my babies were a day old. Quite literally.
One of the keys to good behaviour is learning self respect. When we respect ourselves it is easy to learn to respect others
I was dreading the teenage years- everyone told me my kids would be a nightmare.
And it has been fine. In fact the best years yet. A few bumps along the way as the kids grow and ties are loosened, but that's part of growing and learning. but no big arguments, no door slamming, no bad attitude. No groundings, no taking of mobile phones- not needed. My kids come to me for advice and help.

Just because you don't use punishments per se, surely you will have a way to teach your children that their actions have consequences? I'd be interested in hearing how you approach that.

GoingIn but why do you need that explaining? That's something we all do as parents on a daily basis, and children understand very easily.

Go outside without shoes and your socks get wet.
Get angry with someone and they won't want to play anymore.
You tear your book and we can't read it anymore.

I don't see children as intrinsically naughty. They are curious, sometimes want to touch or do things that are not in their best interests, or can get grouchy when tired, hungry or bored.

This isn't being naughty or behaving out of spite, this is a consequence of their environment or their understanding.

It is up to us to direct and guide sometimes take control, but I am struggling to even think of a situation that I thought deserved punishment.

'Go outside without shoes and your socks get wet.
Get angry with someone and they won't want to play anymore.
You tear your book and we can't read it anymore.'

run into a road...you get hit by a car.
Play with water and electricity...you get a 240v shock.
Play with paint on a light coloured carpet, carpet needs replacing at £100s or £1,000s.
Take a toy away from someone...you get to keep someone's toy.

All natural consequences.

Children are not naturally 'naughty' but they do like to push boundaries, to greater or lesser extents and some are more empathetic than others, especially with regards to siblings.

I am not sure I want someone else's 'naturally curious' child who has not been taught boundaries around to my house exploring where they have been told that they are not allowed to go.

If a child has hit a sibling, get them to write an apology (if they are old enough to write), do something nice for them, make something nice for them etc ....get the punishment to fit the crime.

So you do "punish"? If by punishment you mean a sanction or demand that whose only point is to cause pain, frustration or humiliation as a means of training a child not to engage in behaviour you may have a point.

Children are not naturally 'naughty' but all children are sometimes naughty!

larrygrylls

That's not what I said at all.

It's up to us as parents to guide and control kids environments.

Only a neglectful or stupid parent would allow kids to play with electricity and water or to use paint on a carpet costing £1000s

These situations are not about punishing are they- they are about poor parenting.

Speakout,

There is a nexus somewhere that you are failing to see.

I wonder what others make of your perfect children (that was rhetorical).

My kids have never been punished once at home or at school

How do you know that they've never,
ever been punished at school? Just because they've not had a detention or something formal doesn't mean they've never been punished.

I actually know a family who doesn't believe in punishing their children... the children come can be uncontrollable nightmares.

And I'm so confused as to why it isn't already illegal.
There is a law forbidding people to go around hitting others, the only current exception is children, who are arguably societies most vulnerable group. It's not right to hit them.

My children were easy; I realize that some of this was down to pure luck.
But we seldom punished, and we never smacked. I cannot imagine hitting a child for any reason.

I do agree that some parents who say they don't punish actually do; sometimes it's semantics. A verbal admonishment is essentially a punishment. Certainly, losing one's temper and yelling at a child is a punishment. Removing an item from a child or the child from a situation may be a punishment.

We should have laws against hitting children. The argument that such laws may often be unenforceable can be applied to any number of laws. But laws represent the values of society, and they can change attitudes and make people think twice about an action. Do people who object to this law object to Scots laws against using an implement or striking the face? If not, why not? This anti-smacking law is the next logical step.

I do agree that some parents who say they don't punish actually do; sometimes it's semantics. A verbal admonishment is essentially a punishment. Certainly, losing one's temper and yelling at a child is a punishment. Removing an item from a child or the child from a situation may be a punishment.

Put more articulately than I've been able to! I simply don't believe that any family is so perfect that there have never been any cross words, and that a thoughtful or kind word has been all that has ever been needed for their children to be polite and considerate.

Though I imagine Speakout will claim exactly this!

I also know a family that don’t believe in punishments, and they have two shits for children now going into nightmare teenage years.

The difference is, they didn’t do anything. At all. No discipline, no consequences. They had a pet they treated so badly, they lack empathy in everything.

I think there’s a huge difference between not believing in punishing yet still able to discipline and not believing in punishing and doing nothing at all.

There is also a huge difference between parents who punish all the time for everything, and parents who occasionally resort to punishment because nothing else is working or it seems right for the child/situation at the time.

I run a shop. We get 'explainers' in, who trail behind their kids explaining why they shouldn't do this, that, the other.

I usually have to do a fair bit of tidying up when they're eventually coaxed out. Sometimes I have to bin damaged stock.

We also get some proper nasty bastards in, and it breaks my heart.

Most parents fall somewhere between the two. Not perfect, winging it really, but full of love for their children and really doing their best to bring up decent people in a country where jobs are scarce, family support isn't what it was and state provision is woefully underfunded.

People make mistakes. They need education, not judgement. But that costs money, so...

I am smiling because my kids see me as quite strict, in that I have high expectations of behaviour. Stricter than some of their friend's parents who punish.

Basically, this gives children the same human rights as adults.

Adults still get walloped by other adults from time to time, but it is an offence, punishable by law. Children will still get smacked, but their smacker can be punished now.

It won't always be easy to prove, or punish, but it's a step in the right direction for human rights, and long overdue.