To be happy it will soon be illegal to smack children?

[speakout]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41678797

Brilliant news.

Smacking children is not good; but neither is an unenforceable law - it brings the law into disrepute.

So we shouldn't have laws covering assault on adults?

Just wondering to those who smack, when you smack do you look at your childs face? The pain - even if it is slight, the look of disappointment because the person who has hurt them is supposed to protect them, the sadness of being smacked, the tininess of them as a grown adult exerts their power over them and they are helpless to do anything but to 'fall into line? I just couldn't look at my child whilst hurting them. Those poor children! Sorry I am dead against it! I can't see how any adult can try and justify it! If you can't guide a child into making the right choices then honestly you should be looking at yourselves as human beings and parents rather than looking at your child and calling them naughty whilst smacking them! Its actually quite shocking. I hope it becomes illegal and bloody fast!

*I thanked the poster who responded to her on how thoughtful her post was.

Missed info

Oh and my children are far from perfect! I deal with tantrums, biting, throwing and climbing. My eldest has always been easy and is doing very well with her decisions in behaving. My youngest 2, well lets just say they are hard work and I am far from the perfect mum. I make mistakes, yet I know with lots of patience and the right guidance they will soon become better behaved. No matter how tiring, repetitive or down right stressful they can be, nothing is worth smacking them. They will soon learn that when Mummy says no she means it and they will not get away with misbehaving. They do nor fear me but they will get bored of trying things that they just don't get. Honestly, just try and stay strong, keep stopping them from being naughty by repetition, it probably takes longer, but in the process they learn more!

It's not totally unenforceable in that it add clarity. At the moment SS will be become involved if a child is regularly hit. It means we can safeguard with the law behind us rather than having parents try and minimise and hide behind the fact it's not illegal.

Social workers are also at it not all but some my partner met one who admitted to it. She told him she would put them into care if they told anyone. I bet she must have been a fantastic sw for children and families.

Making laws you can't enforce is like making threats to kids that you are never going to carry out.

Poppl, on that basis we should say that it's legal to smack elderly and vulnerable people. After all, if I hit my old gran too hard, no-one's going to find out so it's pointless trying to stop me, isn't it?

And in fact this wouldn't be making law; it would simply involve abolishing the "reasonable chastisement" defence so that the normal and well-established law on assault applies in the same way as it does in other areas.

Changing the law will make it very easy for people to make malicious complaints to SS or the police.

I read this as 'snacking to be banned in Scotland', and thought it was a good idea.

As you were.

We changed the law in England to stop physical discipline of wives whch was allowed in the 1800s and that is pretty hard to enforce (loads of wives are still hit by husbands) but that does not want me to change the law back to allow phyusical chastisement of wives by husbands. I don't see why harmless small children being smacked by parents are any less deserving of legal protection.

I hope they all video their parents smacking them and upload it to youtube to shame their parents.

Go on children. Do it.

Good

Agree it is sending out the right message

In many cultures it is only not acceptable it’s encouraged as a way to keep control of children and to teach them fear and respect

I can’t see parents who have these beliefs to change their minds overnight but it can help towards breaking the cycle

Some very unhelpful attitudes here. Of course it's always easier to mock others than try to educate them. The way I see it is that there are 4 groups of parents: 1. Violent, sadistic abusers 2. Those who genuinely think physical disciplining is effective, respectful and loving towards kids 3. Those who don't want to slap/smack or hit their children but make a mistake and then immediately realise they were in the wrong and try their best to not do it again 4. Those who never do it and use other tools to discipline. It feels like some on this thread would group all first 3 groups of parents together, saying even one smack on the bottom is equivalent to beating up a child to within an inch of its life. And I don't think that kind of attitude is helpful to anyone. Education would go a long way IMO.

GoingIn or we could say there are parents who hit and parents who don't.

It is actually black and white.

So you really think a a quick smack on the bottom is the same as beating up a child? Or child who has been smacked on the hand or elsewhere a couple of time's in its life is suffering as much as a child who is getting beaten black and blue every day? Therefore of course the punishment for these instances should be exactly the same? I'm not sure I follow your thinking.

So you really think a a quick smack on the bottom is the same as beating up a child?

Of course there are degrees, but it still remains physical assault. A man beating his wife senseless is more serious than slapping her, but they are both assault.

Children are citizens. They deserve protection from assault.

Even hitting dogs is tolerated less than hitting a child.

Disgusting.

The poster was very genuine unlike yourself who is now mocking people

Happy, I haven't mocked anyone on this thread. Lots of people asked "how do you teach children to behave without smacking?", and some of us have politely responded to that question. Then a load of people have piled in calling our responses "nauseatingly smug", "saintly", "fairy tales" and basically bullshit. Perhaps you don't believe us - but I really don't know what we can do about that. Yeah, I might be a hairy handed trucker for all you know - any of us might be, I suppose.

I agree that some of us have easier lives than others though.

Good, I'm glad you agree it's not such a black and white issue after all. I think we are agreed that parents should not be hitting their children. But I don't think, except in more extreme cases, going through the courts, and putting children through the care system is a suitable response to occasional parental mistake if the parent is otherwise completely capable and loving person. I really think there should be more information available about good and effective non-violent alternatives.

Speakout,

So should we say people who lock their children away or those who don’t (by the same analogy)?

And, as for the natural consequences malarkey, the natural consequence for messing around in a road is you get hit by a car. The natural consequence for thumping your younger brother and taking his toy is that you get to keep the toy.

If you need no punishments, why do schools have elaborate sanction systems (ending with exclusion, not an option for a parent)? Are they just incompetent?

And once you do accept the principle of punishment/sanction,who gets to decide that smacking is the worst punishment? If you actually chat to real children, many would prefer a smack (not a beating) to many other punishments (losing favourite toy, no screen time for a week etc).

There are a lot of soi-disant amazing empathetic parents who suddenly develop a strong retributive streak when it comes to punishing adults!

There are a lot of soi-disant amazing empathetic parents who suddenly develop a strong retributive streak when it comes to punishing adults!

I don't want adults to be punished.

I want to see violence towards children become socially unacceptable.
Changing the law will send a clear message to parents that hitting children is wrong.

If you need no punishments, why do schools have elaborate sanction systems (ending with exclusion, not an option for a parent)? Are they just incompetent?

Our school doesn’t do punishments. Local authority owned mainstream school in Scotland, practices “restorative justice”.

There are no shades of grey. It is a dead easy issue. You don't smack a child. Full stop. Very easy and no complications. Just don't do it.

It's not acceptable for one person to hit another person. It is particularly not accepable for big people to hit small people.

Is it acceptable for one person to lock another up without a trial?

Our school doesn’t do punishments. Local authority owned mainstream school in Scotland, practices “restorative justice”.

How does that work for bullying and other types of abuse when a victim does not wish to participate?

DD knows how to push my buttons, and I have come really really close to smacking her - particularly when she has hit me, or DS. I never have, and I truly hope that I never will.

I would be ashamed of myself: I would know that the only reason I had hit her was because I was angry with her and I was taking it out on her physically. Which is a really shit thing for anyone, but particularly a parent, to do to a child.

I have never seen a child smacked by a parent who was reacting calmly, only ever when the parent is cross and reacting angrily to the child.