Another teacher complaint one

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I was going to piggy-back on the currently active thread about a teacher picking on a pupil, but it seemed after reading a few pages that the advice might be different so here goes:

DD (7) feels she is being unfairly targeted by her teacher for minor misdemeanours. She is one of a small number of pupils she claims the teacher 'doesn't like' and singles out for punishment. Another parent in the class has independently told me that her child has told her the same thing, her child is not one of the ones targeted but told her parents that my child was. I know another parent who made a similar complaint last year about the same teacher and a complaint to the head has already been dealt with this year about her treatment of the whole class (from another parent, nothing to do with me).

I have tried to do what I can at home to reinforce good behaviour for DD (both carrot and stick approaches) and have discussed with her several times that if she doesn't do anything wrong, she can't be punished, so to try to keep her nose clean and not step out of line. I have also told her that I'm monitoring all the punishments she gets so that I can decide for myself whether it is unfair or not.

I don't want to claim that she's a perfect child and never puts a foot wrong, but she has not in the past been any worse than any other child of her age and yet is now receiving the brunt of the sanctions. Last year, for example, she got an official sanction once in the year (and I thought her teacher was quite decent and strict last year, definitely not a push over), this year she has already had four since September. I have no problem with her being sanctioned if she has genuinely misbehaved, but I want it to be in line with the punishments others in the class receive, not singling her out.

As an example, another child in the class told the teacher in front of the whole class that she was wrong about a fact (which she was and genuinely didn't know it) and got no punishment. My daughter (on a different day) told the teacher that she had missed out a step in the document she was explaining (which she had) and was shouted at not to interrupt and called rude and was put on warning for a sanction.

The only thing I can get from the teacher, who has complained to me about dd's behaviour, is that she questions adults and children. The teacher labelled this as 'rude' 'completely unacceptable', 'insolent', 'would not be tolerated' etc. but I wasn't able to judge whether she has genuinely been insolent or not since I wasn't given any specific examples. I asked dd herself to give me examples and one of them sounded fair enough (as in, I would have considered it rude): she questioned why the teacher was giving out merits for a very easy task, but all the others just sounded like she had been asking a real question about the work e.g. did she have to write in full sentences on a comprehension test?

She has lost her lunchbreak twice to re-do work because it didn't fulfil the rubric (leave a line between statements). On one occasion she had 4 pages torn out of her book by the teacher and had to re-write them. Not because the work was wrong but because she hadn't followed the instructions about where to leave lines. Again, I didn't undermine the teacher on this, just told dd that she should listen more carefully in the future, but it did seem petty.

She has been moved to sit at the front of the classroom next to the teacher for an indefinite period (presumably until someone else does something worse), lost her break and received a sanction for pushing another child's cardigan off her chair. Again, I'm not saying it was appropriate behaviour, but it does seem to have been unnecessarily harshly dealt with.

DD is getting very despondent and defensive, to the stage where she wants to give up trying to do right because she's going to get shouted at anyway. She has been in tears begging me to move her school or home school her. She has been almost completely put off school and I worry that she's on the verge of refusing.

So, finally getting to the point: AIBU to take some action or is dd really just out of line? If I do something, then what? Complain directly to the teacher or higher up? If IABU then how do I sort dd out? I appreciate that her behaviour at the moment is sometimes rude (e.g. the question about merits) but the friction with the teacher is only going to make it worse, not better, so I'll need some way to correct her myself.

the teacher yesterday was basically trying to say my son is hiding his home work so he doesn't have to do it. Which is a load of bollocks as I knew which piece of homework my ds hadn't done

There are certain ways they need to approach my son to get him to do what they ask of him which they clearly are not following

Also one of his English teachers keeps shouting at him and slamming her fist on the table when he gets something wrong. I mentioned this and she had him outside the classroom asking him why he was making stuff up and saying he is worrying me and that I shoudnt be made to worry. So now he is scared to tell me anything

^He obviously did tell you though.

The poor teachers, having to put up with this nonsense from you.

YANBU. I would talk to the teacher first, give her a bit of an indirect warning by asking questions about each incident. Also tell her you are monitoring it as it is seriously upsetting your dd. Hopefully she will get the message that it is being noted and you are NOT happy.

The next step would be meeting the Head and perhaps ask him/ her to speak to last year's teacher as this seems to be a new thing.

Ds had a teacher in year R that just didn't seem to like boys! I thought it was me or ds. But it screamed out to the point other parents noted it - including parents of girls and talking to parents of older children it was apparently a known thing.

It was never challenged because she was an established and older teacher.

Now I look back and think it's sad many boys would have had their first year blighted by a blind acceptance of established behaviour because "that's just the way she/he is".

I really don't get that parents complaining about teacher, when the child is actually doing something wrong, no matter how petty they are.
She maybe 7, but assume she is in yr3. They expect more in ks2 I assume.
I would try to sort her behaviour first, rather than complaining about teacher.

Where’s the other thread gone? Did it go poof?

There are certain ways they need to approach my son to get him to do what they ask of him which they clearly are not following

Yeah it doesn’t work like that. No one has to tiptoe around Little Johnny. He’s there to learn, he’s fits around them or he gets nothing out of it.

God I feel bloody sorry for teachers

Half term soon folks! Freedom is out there!

Where’s the other thread gone? Did it go poof?

There has been a lot of that recently. Teacher complaining threads being deleted due to PBPs.

If it's this one, still there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3063287-to-complain-about-dd-s-teacher

Thanks for the help, it's useful to get a broader perspective on all sides.

For the record, I have tried approaching the teacher to get her pov on two occasions but she has refused to give any details. On the third occasion, when she approached me to tell me about the cardigan incident, all she would tell me was that DD was always very rude. I was very supportive and said that clearly that wasn't appropriate and we would be dealing with it at home, but when I asked her to give me an example of DD's rudeness she just kept on repeating that she was often rude. I said I was very sorry for her behaviour and would she please tell me an example (so that when I spoke to DD about it, if she denied all knowledge, I could confront her with some evidence) but she just repeated that DD was always rude. I tried one more time to get her to be specific and then gave up.

I am a teacher myself (currently working in the voluntary sector but due to return to school teaching next year). I do get what low-level disruption can do to a class. And I am not trying to exonerate DD, I think it's entirely appropriate that she be sanctioned when she misbehaves, I just think that some of these sanctions are OTT and meted out to DD more than other children and they're making her feel as though nothing she ever does is ever going to be good enough for this teacher.

I'm by no means out to get this teacher, I just want to reset the relationship so that she'll give DD a chance and DD will feel it's worth making the effort. And by all means punish her when needed.

That would indicate to me that it is the way your dd is expressing herself generally that she considers rude rather than that she has said anything particularly bad.
In all honesty do you notice her being abrupt at home or demanding things, being bossy, forgetting please and thank you etc?

omg what a harsh lot you appear to be this poor child is seven years old and is unhappy at what is probably her first term in year 3. The op isnt suggesting she hasnt done anything wrong, tearing pages out of her book is just horrid and not exactly encouraging.

OP, I've had this in the past with one particular teacher. No other staff had an issue with DS, but this one did. If it was happening in every lesson I would have understood more, but no, only the one teacher. My DS said "she has her favourites and I'm not one of them". My advice would be keep a diary and a paper trail. Disapline is one thing, but targeted victimisation and bullying tactics is another thing entirely so you need an explanation and if necessary put the ball in her court and ask for a behaviour plan and a follow up meeting to discuss whether the strategies are working. It may well be that your DC does actually need a plan if they are disruptive, but you need to be clear. This is what I did with the teacher at DS's school. Got in touch regularly with the approach of wanting to work "with" the teacher - it worked better than going in head on which tends to make things worse imo.

PS: if the teacher won't give you proper examples when youve requested an explanation verbally, I would write and copy in the Head Teacher but go in with the tactic of being concerned and wanting more info to be able to support them rather than being critical. "Rudeness" is objective if the teacher can't be specific. Your DD might not understand what is expected and that is her reaction. Plenty of children react this way but without examples how can it be addressed?

OP you sound very level headed and I have a lot of sympathy for your situation.

The thing about teaching is that it only works if the relationship between the teacher and pupil is positive. If the child is only seven, a few weeks into the school year and verging on refusal, then the school needs to pick up its game. Maybe the teacher cannot cope, maybe she has taken a dislike to the student, but either way she is the adult and needs to take responsibility for forging a positive relationship with the child.

It sounds a little odd because you seem like an aware and conscientious parent so it is puzzling that your child is misbehaving regularly. Do you think there may be anything else going on for her?

I had a similar experience with one of my children. I tried speaking with the teacher but eventually went to the principal who was extremely supportive. Moved my child to another class that day, ended the teacher’s contract and has every year made a point of checking my child feels settled. Around the same time he was diagnosed with mild learning difficulties and the school has been very inclusive.

I totally agree Laughing often children can be labelled "rude" or "disrutive" when actually they're struggling.

You do not need to “judge” each situation to decide whether or not it is fair. That is not your job and you cannot possibly decide based on a defensive 7 year old’s version anyway.

You publicly support the school to your child, because creating doubt in the child’s mind will make them believe that they can behave as they please, mum decides what’s ok and what’s not. But if you have concerns you privately raise them to the school.

If your child complained that you were being unfair in taking away her iPad but not her brother’s or something to her teacher (and trust me they do complain about unfairness at home) would you think it strange if the teacher rang you to ask you to explain yourself and your decisions?

I could do nothing right for my year one teacher and the effects of her bullying me have actually been very long reaching. I've never had an issue with another teacher. I know I was younger than OPs dd but it csn happen.

If your Dd is on the verge of school refusing and is this dejected, it's time to act, OP. Agree with other posters that you can get a paper trail and keep pushing the teacher for concrete incidences/her side of the story. I think you sound really fair, you are trying hard to give fair hearing to someone being stubbornly opaque, whilst still trying to balance your dd.

It’s not her role to give a member of staff a “fair hearing”. She is not in a position to judge like that. She should either privately discuss it or report it to the Headteacher.

OP, how do you know she gets more punishments or sanctions than the other children? Our children wouldn't have a clue what the others in the class had got.

Ds had a teacher he just didn't get on with.

She seemed to set him rules just tonne the boss rather than for it actually mattering!

One example was he had violin lesson at 9.30 every Wednesday. His violin teacher would complain if he was late and he knew he had to leave at 9.27 to get there.
Every week he's out his hand up to excuse himself to go and every week the teacher would say he could go when she decides he can not just because he decides it's time to go
After a week where she refused to let him leave until 9.35 am and violin teacher wrote on book he was late again I wrote to office asking for refund of money for missed time and for rest of term as it was clearly not possible for school to manage him attending the lessons he was offered and I was charged for.

HT asked me what had happened and suddenly he left at 9.25 every week bang on with teacher reminding him at 9.20 he had 5 minutes to finish up and get ready!

wow, your child should probably be teaching the class if at age 7 she can articulate 'i am being unfairly targeted for misdemeanours' and her friend can say the same. Are you possibly reading into this? and putting words onto a situation? Your only evidence is your child and she is hardly an objective witness. Please talk to the teacher, the other parent may well feel as protective as you do of his/her child's reputation, so isn't objective either. The teacher is professional and has no axe to grind, we really don't single out kids life is too short and really why would we? No etcher set out to create extra stress for him/herself.

oops teacher,not etcher. Yes, I know teacher should be infallible and never make a mistake , ever ever ever.

Quite a number of the posters on this thread take the teacher's side. A significant proportion of them are clearly teachers themselves. Some of them come across as nasty, officious bullies whom I would not let within a country mile of my child.

Discipline in the classroom is important. Low-level disruption should be discouraged. But none of the behavior by a 7-year-old here described comes close to the kind of persistent, defiant and deliberate low-level disruption we mean when we talk about these things.

This teacher has discouraged a previously happy child to the point where she is on the brink of refusing school. That's not the way forward.

As for some posters, they seem to revel in their professional status and power and be positively pleased that this child is being damaged. They sound aggressive, vindictive and simply cruel.

Do they realize that ?

But none of the behavior by a 7-year-old here described comes close to the kind of persistent, defiant and deliberate low-level disruption we mean when we talk about these things.
Except it does. The questioning and arguing back in a way that can be described as rude or insolent is an issue.

There is a massive difference between a child asking a genuine question and a child being rude.
E.g. I made a mistake on the board today. Students had a laugh abd corrected me. All perfectly polite. Students ask me questions for help all the time, again very polite.
But I can think of one student who used to look at me like I wasn't worth her time, side eye me, ignore instructions and then ask loud daft questions and when I gave simple to the point answers she's roll her eyes and say very exasperatedly 'i was only asking a question'. Everything about her tone was rude and insolent and home would back her saying 'she was confused. Are you saying she should never ask for help?' Etc. Thankfully (no thanks to home) the student realised quickly that speaking to anyone in my room (staff or student) wasn't going to happen and was a dream for the rest of the year.

I teach some lovely students but I also see the behaviour reports they get from other membera of staff. Students can act differently with different members of staff.

There is a trend between those children who display poor attitude and those who know home will call up and complain. People are just saying that whilst OP may want to raise it she should do it appropriately.