To think that older, wealthier people should be paying more tax and NI than younger?

[Creambun2]

So various suggestions, which will probably come to nothing, that young people should pay less tax and national insurance than than older people, presumably with a links to actual incomes maintained.

What do you think? I am in favour as I think that young people are being done over really. Unaffordable housing, educations expenses etc etc.

Of course according to many boomer types this is all their fault and they have no money for housing due to buying a coffee and having a phone

So important I had to say it twice. Sorry!

I can’t understand why age should come into this? Sure, tax wealthier people more heavily. But that should be regardless of their age.
I can follow the argument that younger people should be taxed lower (not sure I 100% agree with this, will need to think about it a bit more).
But someone, somewhere has to pay for the increasing cost of the services we are all using. Especially Housing, social care, health care.

But then you'd have to give them al the benefits that younger people get like cb and tax credits.

I don't get either of these. It's not an age thing, it's an income thing.

Wealthy people do pay more tax, that's how it works. Have no idea why you think it should be age related, that's completely unfair.

Not generally, the difference is that tax is collected on income (NI/Income) and spending (VAT & duties) it's not collected on assets, so a wealthy person may not pay more tax, as it would purely depend on the income and expenditure.

Because we think of wealth as about assets, not income, it's quite likely that there are lots of people who people think of as wealthy pay less tax.

The argument would be that because this wealth has been built up by asset inflation (house prices rising faster than wages typically) that this wealth should be taxed, capturing some of that rise to pay for social needs, the same as why we collect income and sales tax. Generally in the UK it's not, we don't have capital gains tax on your main home.

Wealth taxes are probably not a good thing, particularly in a global world, there are small wealth taxes in other countries, but rarely do they bring in any real revenue - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax for more info!

Wealth is taxed as inheritance tax though

Ways around that though

Not hardly as many as there used to be for law abiding people anyway.

kaytee87 not really, because the amount is so little, even with the high amounts now it's still only around 1% of tax receipts against 45% income and 30% expenditure (others are things like council tax, and business taxes) So whilst there is a small tax on wealth at death, I don't think we can really call it a wealth tax, more of a transaction tax at death.

Crap suggestion. Are you posting to wind people up?

Taxation should be related to income but there is no rational or fair basis for relating it to age.

I know that tax credits are income based, but if you take more tax from the wealthier then they won't be so wealthy anymore and need top ups just like the younger generations do today.

I also think it depends on where you live with the property ladder assumptions of it's much harder now.
My ds have had no trouble buying houses in early 20's as we live in the NW and they did without anything for a few years, just like we had to do.

If your 'wealth' is tied up in a valuable house, it isn't wealth you can use. You can't sell a bit of it to buy your groceries! If you do sell and downsize, you've still got to pay stamp duty (another tax).

There are a lot of older people in big houses on minimum pensions. How can they pay more tax?

In regards to wealthy people paying more tax take Philip Green. His business are in his wife's name (Monaco resident) so pays little tax. Now one could argue that he employs a lot of people which generates money. However tax payers still need to top up the wages of some of his staff, what about all the transport systems that his logistics rely on? etc.

CGT not CT.

And IHT.

thepants99 We just woke up one morning in Ireland and we had Property Tax. The government just introduced it. I have to pay e400 approx to the government for the house I already own and paid stamp duty on when I bought it.

I wouldn't assume that that will never be introduced in the uk. It was seen as a good way of getting older people living in four bedroom houses to downsize and create more supply of family size houses. It kind of worked and generated a lot of money for gov.

Let's turn it around. Rather than saying the OAPs should be "taxed" more, why don't we say why should they be "taxed" less??

A pensioner on an income of £26,000 comprising partly state benefit and partly occupational pension, pays less than a worker earning £26,000 due to the worker paying 12% NIC and the pensioner paying zero NIC. How is that fair???

Occupational pension are just deferred wages, so they should be liable to NIC upon paying out, even moreso for early retirement before state pension age!

And yes, pensioners who remain working into retirement should also be liable to NIC if their wages are high enough - why shouldn't they pay the same as someone younger for doing the same job?

Jax Well if an older person downsizes to a house that costs 300k, they would only be looking at 5k stamp duty so I don't think that would be a big enough reason not to sell.

Tax should be based on income earned.

Eldest with a part time job and goes to college has just decided that he is no longer able to continue running his car (that he worked hard to get) and save for a future. It was so sad to hear him but at least he is being realistic

What do you think? I am in favour as I think that young people are being done over really. Unaffordable housing, educations expenses etc etc.

Of course according to many boomer types this is all their fault and they have no money for housing due to buying a coffee and having a phone hmm

I think it's a crazy idea. And no, I'm not prepared to pay a higher rate of tax to subsidise the young. Sorry Of course, if that's what the regime becomes then that's what I'll have to do. But I'd fight it it!

And no, I don't buy into the sweeping generalisation that they have no money for housing due to buying coffee and mobile phones. However, I think there are plenty who could benefit from some money management/budgeting skills.

Plus, with the property tax, people like my parents who bought their house in 1970 and have lived in it since then without a lot of money were faced with paying property tax on a house worth half a million. Luckily I think my brother pays it for them. But they are pensioners.

In some ways I think property tax is a good way of generating coffers for the treasure but not at the brutally high rate it's done in Ireland. In the UK they might introduce it but the tax would be a lower percentage of the value of your house. And it makes no difference here if you own your house outright or if you're re-mortgage up to the hilt. Gotta pay.

Agree with Karrie. If anyone doesn't think this is a fair principle where do they think they extra money that's needed is going to
come from?

No, not at all.

My Mum pretty much struggled financially most of her life. It's only in the last few years that she has been in a decent financial position. At 78, she is getting past the point of being able to enjoy it.

And no, I'm not prepared to pay a higher rate of tax to subsidise the young

But that's what young people are doing!

Op, I think what you meant to write is “ I’d like to pay less tax and national insurance, as such, do you think there is any suggestion that would enable me to pay less. Happy for someone else to pick up thr bill for me”

My first thought was Conservative Party troll.

MN is probably an irresistible hunting-ground for lazy policy makers to run things up flagpoles and see who salutes.

Now we know this, with a little off-forum co-ordination it could be possible to reverse-troll, and arrange for totally ludicrous policies to get an enthusiastic "thumbs up from Mumsnet" (there's a lapel badge if ever I saw one ), and then die a death of ridicule in the press.

Be fun to see just how far it could be pushed ?

Doubt it’s a troll, just someone who doesn’t want to pay their way as an adult in society. There is always someone who thinks every one else should pay their share. This op seems to be wishing the whole population over a certain age should be the same as their mum and dad and subsidise them.