To think that older, wealthier people should be paying more tax and NI than younger?

[Creambun2]

So various suggestions, which will probably come to nothing, that young people should pay less tax and national insurance than than older people, presumably with a links to actual incomes maintained.

What do you think? I am in favour as I think that young people are being done over really. Unaffordable housing, educations expenses etc etc.

Of course according to many boomer types this is all their fault and they have no money for housing due to buying a coffee and having a phone

"Takes a bow". Thanks Lentil 😄

I think I read that the younger generation are starting to reject capitalism as it's not working for them.

I think people should be entitled to a maximum of 15 years' old age pension. If you live any longer, you fund from savings or equity in house.

And starve if you don't have these assets?

This will be you at some point - be careful what you wish for.

As pps have noted, each generation faces its own challenges.

My grandparents were being shelled and killed in the war, grew up in abject, total poverty (no running water, no indoor plumbing, slum level poverty.)
My parents grew up in poverty, with rationing, no electricity, in a time and place where women were expected to leave work on marriage, where women didn’t get mortgages and where the swinging sixties largely didn’t happen. No concept of the right to go to uni, to travel, to work abroad. No internet. Totally different set of social circumstances. Much more constrained lives in many ways.
I grew up with the miners strike, poor but far less so than previous generations. I went to uni. I travelled.
Things changed massively when I was at uni - internet just started to come out, the first widespread mobiles etc. Europe, I travelled, I went to university. Then the new millennium happened and so many amazing advances in tech - incredible.
So many more advantages than my parents. A broader life in so many ways. And just different challenges. Challenges all the same, just different ones.

Millenials have grown up in general with no true material poverty - very few will live in a back to back with no indoor plumbing. They are not a charmed generation, none have been. They have their own challenges and issues, some of which I think are very serious. Housing is certainly an issue. In some ways they are far luckier than previous generations, and in some ways they are not. Their worlds are wider, they are in essence competing in a global pool from the word go, and that’s going to be hard.

Each generation has its own advantages and challenges. I think the combination of social media, globalisation and the economic downturn is particularly toxic. This explains it very well

waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

Putting generations against each other solves nothing. The housing situation in the uk is dire (although if you want to see a truly horrific rental situation I suggest moving to Stockholm...)
Life is both harder and easier. The only people who benefit from stoking up anti boomer sentiment are the few percent at the top who own everything, run everything and cream off the profits.

I think people should be entitled to a maximum of 15 years' old age pension. If you live any longer, you fund from savings or equity in house.

This will be deleted, but anyone thinking like this is a major arse.

I think people should be entitled to a maximum of 15 years' old age pension. If you live any longer, you fund from savings or equity in house.

And after 15 years if they don't have funds or can't sell their house, we just cast them onto the street? Lovely.

Well my mum died when she was 84. She did not own her home and only had a small amount of savings.
So what would she do when the 15 or 20 years are up.
My baby boomer sister has had her retirement age upped twice. Retires now at 65 I believe. She is on jSA with little hope of getting a job.
We are lucky that dh is on 60k but face the marginal taxation rates stated in the Telegraph article due to have 3DC and not getting child benefit.
The point is everyone has different struggles. I remember having less than 100.00 left after paying mortgage and utility bills for food and everything else.
There were no help to buy ISA in my day.

I think anat's post above is the best on the thread.
Also setting people against each other is so pointless particularly as most family members who happen to be at a stage in life when they can help their parents or children will do so.

There are some things we can do to try to help the low wages compared with pensioners.

Well said anatidae.

Thank you.

It’s a false debate, stirred up by people who would rather see generations scrapping than looking up and saying ‘what? You own what percentage of the land in the uk? You earn how much corporate profit and pay how much tax???

The people causing this poverty and austerity are not your grandparents or your parents. They are not the generation that had rationing and ducked shells. They are the people who structure society so that you are an obedient wage slave, chained in debt from university, working long hours in an insecure job, with few employee rights, to make someone obscene amounts of profit that they squirrel away offshore, then pay such awful poverty wages to you that the taxpayer needs to top them up. Who import low skill labour to flood the market and lower wages. Who then tell you that we will be better off without Europe and then axe all the eu rules that protect workers

I realise that sounds like I’m an old commie and I’m really not.

Capitalism is absolutely fine by me - it’s the least worst option.
At the same time unfettered, unregulated corporate dominance is hell waiting to happen. Capitalism is the best we have now, as long as it’s balanced by strong forces of society/decent government who keep the darker side in check. Social democracy if you will.

You own what percentage of the land in the uk?

The vast majority of land in England is still held be the descendants of the families that were given it by William the Bastard in 1066.

If you look at political systems as being devised to allow those in privilege to stay in privilege, then the Norman feudal system we started with is almost perfect. No wonder other countries envied us.

Anatidae if you’re an old commie can I be one too? Or maybe I’ll be a social capitalist.
As you say it does none of us any favours when generations are pitted against each other.

And the normans were actually the Norse a few generations back. They got us in the end...

I get so frustrated seeing this ‘hate the baby boomers/give up your lattes and you can afford a castle’ stuff.

Look UP people. Our ruling class are dragging us back to feudal times.

And after 15 years if they don't have funds or can't sell their house, we just cast them onto the street? Lovely.

No, after the statutory period of state pension, they then go onto pension credits, i.e. means tested benefits, instead of automatic entitlement which takes no account of wealth etc. Either that, or just scrap the automatic state pension and go straight to pension credits.

*‘what? You own what percentage of the land in the uk? You earn how much corporate profit and pay how much tax???

The people causing this poverty and austerity are not your grandparents or your parents. They are not the generation that had rationing and ducked shells. They are the people who structure society so that you are an obedient wage slave, chained in debt from university, working long hours in an insecure job, with few employee rights, to make someone obscene amounts of profit that they squirrel away offshore, then pay such awful poverty wages to you that the taxpayer needs to top them up. Who import low skill labour to flood the market and lower wages. Who then tell you that we will be better off without Europe and then axe all the eu rules that protect workers.

[U}nfettered, unregulated corporate dominance is hell waiting to happen.*

Absolutely spot on Anat.

It's divide and rule; get us squabbling amongst ourselves and deflect attention from the real root causes and the remedies needed to put a stop to all of this. Because putting a stop to all of this is the last thing they want.

Aargh, bold fail, sorry.

I am not a socialist but I don't like generational division. there is a comment article in the Times today on the old/young differences . I am not against reporting these facts like the young have a lot of debt (but they always have) and differences if reporters want to but setting people against each other is never very helpful to those people.

By all means encourage people to avoid debt and work hard. None of us would suggest that was bad advice. It is not impossible to do a bit better than others around you. In fact it hold you back if you assume there is no point working at anything as you will always fail.

They are the people who structure society so that you are an obedient wage slave, chained in debt from university, working long hours in an insecure job, with few employee rights, to make someone obscene amounts of profit that they squirrel away offshore, then pay such awful poverty wages to you that the taxpayer needs to top them up

Yes.

I dont think I’m a socialist really either. I think people do need to work (according to ability, and of course the vulnerable should be looked after.) I think hard work should be encouraged and rewarded. I’ve no problem with entrepreneurs or those who have worked /invented getting rich. As long as they pay their taxes and don’t exploit.

What I want to see is equality of opportunity so that a bright young thing who works hard isn’t hindered by being born poor. I want to see children have access to high quality education and healthcare regards of how wealthy their parents are - and a system that lets them thrive when they work hard. I want to see workers treated fairly, I want to see companies make a profit, not an obscene killing at the expense of their workers. I want to see people pay tax and I want to see the government spend it wisely. I want there to be a safety net. I want the disabled and the vulnerable to be helped. I just want a bit more fairness and equality - it’d benefit us all.

Capitalism is ok, it just needs checks and balances. Right now those aren’t strong enough, and people suffer.

Capitalism is absolutely fine by me - it’s the least worst option.
At the same time unfettered, unregulated corporate dominance is hell waiting to happen. Capitalism is the best we have now, as long as it’s balanced by strong forces of society/decent government who keep the darker side in check. Social democracy if you will

Well said - the sensible, middle of the road approach which often gets the best results in the end

It always irritates me when capitalism are automatically damned as wanting to "grind the little guy into the dust" and all socialists just as quickly accused of trying to tear everything down for the sake of it

There really is a better place to be found at the centre

anatidae I’ve never seen such sense written on here about politics and it perfectly describes the way I feel. I just wish Lib Dem was a stronger, more centralist party. We don’t have anyone decent to choose from.

I vote you for prime minister

Challenge accepted kaytee !

My terms are reasonable :)

Perhaps moderate politics is revolutionary these days? I think if you put a bunch of 40- 60 something women in barge on the world we’d have it all sorted out by lunchtime.

Like the idea of the barge!
I’m in!

I’ll hand out your fliers

Doh. Charge.

Although I’m not against a barge based HQ, as long as there’s a ready supply of tea...

What do we want?
Sensible evidence based policy!
When do we want it?
After a buffer period of gradual introduction to prevent economic shock!

Vive la revolution