To be on DD's boyfriend's side?

[AshleighPope]

DD is 17. We (our household) would all say that we were feminists.

DD has had her boyfriend over for the weekend. DD is having some new units put up and she was carrying some wood up the stairs, with DH following and her boyfriend did turn around and say to DH "why are you getting her to carry it, I'll carry it (DD's name)?" and she went rather ballistic, saying that she thought he wasn't like that. As I said before, I absolutely do see where she is coming from, but he was looking out for her. He seemed really sad and went home

I actually can't stop thinking about it, he's just a young lad. I have a son too and wouldn't think he was going against anything he has been taught, if he offered to do it for his girlfriend.

AIBU to feel a bit sad for him?

But charalois she wasn't trying to pull calves out of cows or do anything that was physically hard for her. She was already - apparently without problem - carrying some wood up the stairs and her boyfriend went over her head to tell her father she shouldn't be allowed to do that. I'm totally with your DD, OP. No one is saying men aren't stronger than women on average, just that the fact women are less strong didn't mean they're incapable of doing anything.

Modern day feminism is bullshit for reasons exactly like this.

A movement that was originally about gaining equal legal rights for women, has somehow morphed into the belief that for women to be as respected as men, they have to be more like men.

Men and women are biologically different, and as a pp said, men are biologically stronger than women. Offering to carry something isn't suggesting that you, as a woman can't do it, just that for him, as the biologically stronger male, it would probably be less effort.

Your daughter massively overreacted and I think she owes her boyfriend an apology!

He didn't ask her if she'd like a hand though, did he? He was rude to her dad and acted like she couldn't speak up for herself. That's not on.

No. Its feminism, not womanism. I dont want equality just for people with vagina. I want a world in which feminine and masculine traits are equally valued. So I don't have to act like a man to be respected, but that traditionally female traits and roles are equally respected.

And I have no problem with men asking me if I need help. I recently asked people for help at Ikea as I couldn't manage to heft two bulky boxes myself - whilst putting them on my trolley a young woman helped me because her male partner was carrying a baby, in the car park a passing man asked me if I needed a hand and i was grateful for all help. In this case though he didn't ask if she wanted help. He assumed she couldn't do something and communicated with another man about that

I have no problem with men offering help, especially when it's heavy lifting.

I have a problem with a man addressing the other man I'm with to berate him for 'letting' me do something.

And I'm not sure why so many people are ignoring that? @MrsMcgarry would you have been so grateful had a passing man asked your husband if you needed help?? Because that's closer to this situation than yours.

BarbarianMum Mon 16-Oct-17 09:03:56
"He didn't ask her if she'd like a hand though, did he? He was rude to her dad and acted like she couldn't speak up for herself. That's not on."

I'd say this. Yes, maybe it was a one off, and maybe she could have laughed at him instead of blowing up, but I would not see this behaviour towards her family as a good sign in a new boyfriend. Looks too much like marking territory, not like being a nice helpful guy.

I have a son just a little bit older, and I would think he was going against everything he was taught if he addressed an older man like this in the home he had entered as a guest when there was no provocation. This does not suggest that the lad is prepared to accept that his girlfriend already has a life and a modus vivendi with her parents that might require just as much respect as his own way of living and expectations.

As others have said, a nice helpful offer of help would have been different.

And that biological thing is statistics: it does not mean every woman on earth is less suited than any man on earth to carry out any given task (except those involving a penis). I worked in a heavy manual job for years, I was fine. There were men who couldn't hack it.

charolais Hannah Hauxwell.

I think that Barbarian has it.

If that was my daughter, boyfriend would be history.

Be rude to her father at your peril!

No Diana I wouldn't . I'm on the same side as you here - I was grateful for help offered from one human to another, and if I'd seen a man or woman struggling in the way I was I'd have offered help as well.

I feel for the lad tbh and I don’t think there was any need for your dd to be that way.

I don’t think he was rude and If I had seen your dd doing all the carrying I probably would of commented to her Dad why is she doing it all as well and imo it’s possible to say that without using a rude tone of voice

If I was carrying something heavy Dh would said “I’ll carry that for you” not becuase his a bastard that wants to chain me to the sink to wash up and have me cook his dinner every night but because his my dh and it’s polite, My dad or brother would say the same if they saw me as well.

"Do you need a hand carrying that wood, DD?" is absolutely fine.

Saying to DH, "Why are you getting her to carry it?" is rude. It also assumes that DD isn't capable of speaking up for herself or deciding for herself whether or not she can manage.

He stuck his nose in where it clearly wasn't wanted.

I think you might need to put your DD in counselling, or at least teach her some manners. Young girl was carrying some heavy stuff. Young, chivalrous, man offered to carry said heavy stuff (as we all know, unless young lady in question lifts weights, young men find such tasks easier so it is only polite that he offered to help). Young girl throws a hissy fit instead of politely saying thank you but I will manage or I can manage these ones but there is some more over there that needs carrying. This has nothing to do with feminism. It's a problem with manners (and probably some internalised victimhood on your daughter' apart).

" Young, chivalrous, man offered to carry said heavy stuff"

No-he berated her dad for letting her carry it & then told her that he would carry it.

I think he's had a lucky escape tbh. Good thing your H didn't ask him WTF he was on about either. If your daughter went 'ballistic' over it then she sounds a bit of a drama queen.

There is equality and then there is common sense.
I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a middle aged man to carry something rather than a 17 year old girl. I consider myself a feminist, as does my partner. He does the majority of the lifting in our because he is stronger than I am. If he wasn’t, I would. It’s not expecting ‘the nice bits’ of being a female, it is playing to the strengths of each household member and recognising we all have different talents and abilities.

Without asking said female if she had those strengths!

Regardless of who is right, if DD is going ballistic at him over such trivial things then I don't see much of a future for that relationship.

She’s being ridiculous. He was being polite, he wasn’t saying she couldn’t do it but if it’s easier for him then yeah he could give her a hand.
I expect my partner to do the heavy jobs because he’s bigger even though I could do most myself.

Silly little girl...

men cant win in today's world can they - offer to help carry wood - get shouted at. Dont offer to help carry wood - get accused of being unhelpful.

YANBU - i feel sorry for your daughters BF. Your daughter needs to realise how rude she was.

I’d love to see how any feminist would manage on our labour intensive farm when they get into their 60’s. Try looking at a cow's back-end, at a couple of hooves sticking out, knowing you had to pull the calf to save the lives of both cow and calf, you'd find out quickly men are much more physically capable. My husband can still pull out stuck calves in his mid-60’s and will be able to do that, and more, probably throughout his 70’s. I, on the other hand, am spent. Hell, I never did have the strength to pull a calf out of its mother.

My great aunt was always the one who did it, because she had smaller hands. Was the same on the farm next door actually (Mid Wales, 1950s-80s ish). So they generally were better able to deal with that. There is a knack to it though - but I guess the kind of idiotic family where it's all about brute force being better wouldn't have understood that, and probably caused their animals a good deal of unneccessary suffering.

Bugger off with your man-pleasing crap!

If he had said
"Do you need a hand with that?" addressed it to HER, not berated her father, and been prepared to accept "No, I am fine" as an answer all is well

However that is not how it went down. He spoke to her Father a) rudely and b) as if she wasn't there and c) as if she didn't have any input

Maybe she should have taken the trouble to explain the issue to him instead of going off on one.

There are physical differences between M & F bodies today - however we still live in a culture where it isn't the norm for females to train or play sport to the same extent as men. It is perfectly possible for them to be stronger than they are as a group. In terms of farming it is one of the toughest jobs but if the women were out doing exactly the same as men from the youngest age I think you would find more parity at an older age - rather than taking the softer easier options "as they are women" which they often had in the past e.g. orphan lamb sorting in the kitchen, food prep and household running while men out in fields etc.

Jesus, poor lad! confusedYour DD is blowing it out of all proportion, her boyfriend was trying to be kind and make himself useful, no need to jump down his throat like that.

This! He offers to carry something for her and she goes ballistic?! Talk about an over reaction.

Like a PP says, if he had simply asked if she wanted a hand, that would be different but he essentially went over her head, and was rude to her dad in the process, and acted like she couldn't think or speak for herself. Going ballistic is a bit of an over-reaction but if he has form for being so fucking annoying and patronising, she may be getting to the end of her tether.

As for the assertions from charolais that women don't continue to work physically on farms into their later years, our experiences couldn't be more different. I assure you it is not rare ime for a woman to work just as hard on a farm as the man. Some things may be more of a struggle, granted, but certainly not impossible and definitely not unheard of.

but if he has form for being so fucking annoying and patronising, she may be getting to the end of her tether.

Where does it say he has form? Am I missing something or is that just a huge assumption on your part?