To undermine school on this?

[Detentioncontent]

DC1 goes to a school 5 and a half miles away following bullying. No other option.
At first buses were amazing but then they removed lots of services leaving us stranded. As a result dd now has to catch two buses. Not a huge issue during morning or daytime.

She has one particular teacher who keeps the whole class behind every single lesson for talking. I have checked and my DC1 is not one of the talkers.

Ten minutes in to class today he gave some pupils a detention because of talkers. He said my dc and the others could go but then ended up keeping everyone back anyway. The others still have detention.

The last time he did this dc1 who has sen and in schools own words is classed as vulnerable did not get home until 6.45pm.

Not only did she hit rush hour which meant buses where going past her full by the time they got to her but she then missed the two possible connecting buses and had a fifty minute wait alone at a bus stop to get home.

She's still currently waiting today at a bus stop near school to get on a bus so the same will happen today.
She's also managed to run down her battery on her phone which I'm annoyed at her about so I now have a child with Sen out there with it getting dark and no phone.

Not only that but I'm sick of the meltdowns when she gets home really late and peed off.

I've asked already for her to be let out on time.

Aibu?

Speak to the head. The teacher needs to give 24 hour notice for keeping kids back after hours and shouldn't be holding back a whole class, that's crap of him/her.

That is a poor behaviour management strategy and on that point YANBU.
Your dd shouldn’t be kept late because of others behaviour, no regularly at least.

* The teacher needs to give 24 hour notice for keeping kids back after hours*
Not true - no notice needs to be given, BUT schools need to consider safeguarding and this is why most schools do give notice or have a pre-agreed arrangement to say they can stay for 30mins or whatever. Our notice period for after school is only a coupe of hours but that works fine.

Honestly, even without the SEN issue, it's not acceptable for teachers to arbitrarily decide to keep children for extra time after school, especially when it means they're getting home hours late on a regular basis.

It would be one thing if a class was being generally awful and the teacher keeps them beyond the final bell for 10/15 minutes as a one off but it is not ok for them to be a regular occurrence - especially for the behaviour of one or two kids.

Your issue is your DD has SEN and is vulnerable, but there may be other kids who are also inconvenienced by being kept late - those who have after school activities, or have to pick up younger siblings, or have limited transport, or have appointments, or have caring responsibilities or even just those who are being picked up by parents/carers who have other commitments that mean they can't just sit around waiting indefinitely.

I would definitely be talking to the school but I'd also be discussing it with the other parents too (Do you know any of them or is there a Facebook group for your kid's school/year that you could post to other parents on?) because even for parents with NT kids it is not OK for them to be held back regularly. I'd be tempted to even start asking DD to call you when she leaves school and if you haven't received a call/text within 5 minutes of the end of the school day I'd be calling the school office to find out if she has been held back ... if calling three or four times a week for a few weeks is what it takes for them to realise how inconvenienced you are by these impromptu detentions then so be it.

Is she stamented? The council can provide home to school transport if there is enough evidence.
I would consider getting an educational solicitor involved if you can afford it and fighting for this.
I know parents who have nagged and nagged their councils and got the home to school transport. If you can prove she is at risk and vulnerable then it is possible.
Are you in England?

Sounds rubbish - definitely raise it with school & ensure they come up with a proper solution.

seems pretty unreasonable of the teachers. definitely take it up with the school.

Whole class punishmenrs are really ineffective as the good kids feel resentful and the naughty kids smug cos they get same treatment as the good kids.

And assuming that one of the goals of education in a democracy is to teach basic concepts of social justice, intentional punishment of the innocent is inappropriate and counter-productive.

I would also be asking the school to show you the risk assessment they have done to cover this situation...

Because firstly if they haven't done one - if not, why not? - that's a big failure on their part that has led to a failure to safeguard a vulnerable student.

If they have, how can they possibly think it is ok to cause consequences like these to a vulnerable student? And if they don't think it's ok then they will obviously (put the words in their mouth!) be dealing with the teachers and ensuring no more after school punishments...

Thanks all
She got home at 6.15pm in the end.
There are many kids in her class that travel much further than dd and some are carers for parents and younger siblings.

Parents evening is on Friday so I'm going to personally go in.

You shouldn't raise this issue at the parents' evening with that teacher. The meeting is to discuss your child's progress. This a separate and bigger issue.

I'd be raging at this, don't wait until Friday you need to go in today to sort this out once and for all.

The ironic thing here is that it's a Free School, the new type of school that was set up because qualified teachers were so inept and parents wanted more control. Now we have a practice that hasn't been used in schools for years and not used for very good reason, because the 'teachers' don't actually have a clue. This was always going to happen. There's a lot to be said for the traditional school model. And before anyone says, I ow that some free schools have been very successful, but the risk was that the lack of actual teaching knowledge and experience of different strategies would be issues.

The parents evening is a drop in session to meet staff so I will be able to talk to the head.

She hasn't got either teacher before then

Your poor daughter OP! I hope that she got home safely!

Whole class punishment is dreadful, bad practice and a sign that the teacher involved is floundering/ unable to adequately control the class. I was a child who always kept my head down and did everything asked of me by teachers. Being on the spectrum (which was not picked up until my son was diagnosed) I was a stickler for rules. I had the misfortune of being placed in the worst behaved class in our year group ( in the year grtoup within the whole local authority area). As a result our class spent weeks being shadowed by a team of educational psychologists. I remember my parents being called in, being told that I was being failed at the school due to the horrendous behaviour of my classmates (they also picked up on the awful bullying I was being subjected to.) My parents were advised either to move schools, or to invest in tutors to make up for the negative impact my classmates were having on my education. My parents opted for the second option, although I sometimes wish that they had moved me. I honestly can't imagined how distressed I would have been if forced into detentions for behaviour that was nothing to do with me!

Unfortunately moving isn't always the answer either (as you have already seen). I would push for a meeting with the teacher, head of year, assistant head/ head teacher and the senco. It sounds like your daughter very much needs an IEP! Like others have said, ask for a copy of the risk assessment they have completed for your daughter, ask how they can guarantee her safe return home! I think that you have a very good case for home to school transport provision!

At the very least, it should be written into your daughters IEP, that due to her vulnerabilities, she should be exempt from whole class detention. You could even have a proviso that should your dd do anything that warrants an after school detention, that they should contact you, so arrangements can be made in advance (yes I realise the likelihood of this happening are very slim, however it would show that you are happy to comply with school discipline procedures, as long as they don't place your daughter in danger).

Does your daughter have sensory sensitivities op? I ask because my son and I being on the spectrum, we find buses to be incredibly overwhelming! The engine noises, people chatting, brightness, close proximity of strangers and strong smells can be incredibly overwhelming. A short journey on one bus could leave your daughter so overwhelmed she is ready to meltdown, yet your poor daughter is having to endure two bus journeys!!! Add change to routine, distress at being late for bus, exhaustion from walking to bus station/ distress at full buses driving past her and its no wonder she is ready to meltdown by the time she gets home! I would ask for home to school transport to be provided, as well as for your daughter to be released from class five minutes early (to avoid the sensory overload of all classes being released at once!). Hopefully if your dd is regularly allowed out of class (with a friend if you feel she needs it) five minutes early, it will become normal to her classmatese to routine, distress at being late for bus, exhaustion from walking to bus station/ distress at full buses driving past her and its no wonder she is ready to meltdown by the time she gets home! I would ask for home to school transport to be provided, as well as for your daughter to be released from class five minutes early (to avoid the sensory overload of all classes being released at once!). Hopefully if your dd is regularly allowed out of class (with a friend if you feel she needs it) five minutes early, it will become normal to her classmates and they won't associate it with escaping the whole class detention.

There's a parents' evening on a Friday!!???

This trikes me as a school that bullies staff...

That may seem irrelevant but if teachers are staying on Fridays for parents ' evenings that suggests a school which expects staff to be there almost permanently and where your time is not your own :the teacher will then develop a skewed concept of time and life in general, I think.

Teachers who give most detentions are the ones who often see hard work as putting in long long hours and don't see why the kids shouldn't too. They may well be expected themselves to be on site all hours...

4pm Peng

Rescue yes sensory issues are a problem.
I've already had words over her getting upset about being in a disruptive class for this reason.

Piggy it's a meet the teachers type event and not late. In fairness many children usually leave when the Dc do as they are already in a longer day so while I've no doubt they work at home they aren't usually in school late.

Since this is one teacher, I would make an appointment to sit down and talk face to face with that teacher. I would explain what is happening carefully, describing the bus situation. I know you have already done this, but it might help to have a direct chat with the particular teacher.

All the same OP - a meet the teachers event on a Friday speaks volumes. it is the one sacrosanct non meeting day for most teachers!

Andrewofgg Tue 10-Oct-17 17:36:47
"If she is exempt from punishment she will suffer at the hands of those who are not. And no power on earth can protect her."

And what earthly power is going to protect her from the consequences of her SN?

Or do you think having SN can be defined as being exactly the same as everybody else as long as nobody finds out?

This is the kind of reasoning that made dd's doctor deny her a wheelchair so as not to make her look different. The fact that she needed the wheelchair to get to class didn't seem to register along with the overwhelming need not to "be different". If you have SN/SEN you already are different: the girl's classmates are just going to have to suck it up and teachers prepare to come down hard on any bullying (ime not so common these days for SN).

All the same OP - a meet the teachers event on a Friday speaks volumes. it is the one sacrosanct non meeting day for most teachers!

Agreed. And for many other workplaces as well. There's an unwritten rule where I work that no meetings are scheduled on Friday afternoons unless absolutely necessary.