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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask about applying for an Italian passport without the signature of my estranged husband?

26 replies

terriblemistake · 07/10/2017 22:31

Hi - I have dual British / Italian nationality due to having one English and one Italian parent.

Does anyone have any experience of trying to apply for an Italian passport without the signature of their ex?

In my case we are estranged, living in the same house, and going through a divorce which H is so far ignoring completely.

He is also ignoring me and there is no point my asking him for his signature on my form. Sadly I need it though as we have children who are under 18.

I can write and explain apparently, and the consulate will write to him asking him if there are any reasons that he wouldn't want my passport renewed. What happens though if he doesn't answer their letter - which he definitely won't?

Help Confused.

OP posts:
SD1978 · 09/10/2017 02:14

I wasn’t aware that as an adult you needed permission from an ex for a passport? If is the children’s passports you are requesting to renew, or your passport is dependent on his citizenship, then I understand, but why does an adult who qualifies need another adults permission?

TheVanguardSix · 09/10/2017 02:27

You ought to speak with the Italian consulate in the UK. It's incredibly tricky.
They will more than likely steer you in the direction of the courts to get a court order permitting you to apply solely OR a court order making both of you apply jointly (since he's living with you, he CANNOT avoid a court order. It would be breaking the law).

Also before you get the passport OP, you have to naturalise your kids as Italians by registering a birth outside of Italy THEN apply for the pp.

UK citizens require one parent. This is not the case for most other passports.

missadasmith · 09/10/2017 07:29

do you need your partner's consent to get an Italian passports??

or are you talking about a child?

missadasmith · 09/10/2017 07:32

sorry, reread it. it's for children...

I think this is common with many European passports. I have a German friend who has similar problems (sorry, not helpful).

Rosa · 09/10/2017 07:36

When applying for any documents in Italy you need the signature of both parents .. there must be an allowance for situations like this but my guess is that it will not be an easy one and also not a quick one.

lalalonglegs · 09/10/2017 07:43

Are you dealing with the Italian consulate in London? I have found them very hard work. Are you going for an actual passport for your children who are already registered as Italian citizens or do you want to register them first? If it's just the registration then, from memory, your husband's signature is not needed.

disahsterdahling · 09/10/2017 08:28

He is also ignoring me and there is no point my asking him for his signature on my form. Sadly I need it though as we have children who are under 18

Presumably he is talking to the kids? So get them to ask for the signature?

Or am I being too simplistic?

Goodness some divorcing people are juvenile. He needs to get over himself.

Andrewofgg · 09/10/2017 08:42

The English court will probably not order him to sign an Italian passport form and the Italian consulate may insist on seeing an order of the English court terminating his p.r. Not ideal - but for all they know you are planning on abducting him. It happens. Sorry, but you are over the barrel.

Sgtmajormummy · 09/10/2017 09:09

Knowing the Italian system, children need both parents' consent for even minor issues like leaving the school accompanied by a teacher or having their photo taken.
So a passport without both parents' authorisation is never going to happen.

Palermonese · 09/10/2017 11:25

It might be worth signing up here, and asking:

italiancitizenship.freeforums.org

It's unofficial, but there are a lot of posters there who know their way around the various houses.

It's only when you encounter true European bureaucracy you appreciate how well the UK works, generally Smile

Original poster
terriblemistake · 09/10/2017 19:23

Hi

Thanks for all the answers! I didn't realise there had been any.

The signature is for my passport, not my dcs'. Because I have children who are under 18, I need his signature for my passport in case I abduct them HmmConfused.

I haven't even got to the part where I register them with the AIRE in London and get their passports. Though maybe when it comes to their documents they can ask H to sign as he won't want to go against their wishes.

But since this is my passport we are talking about and he now hates me beyond measure, the situation is very difficult. I also don't want to ask him as he will then know that it is something that I want and that he can use against me. Things are that bad. I can write to the consulate and explain. Also give them a copy of my divorce petition if that's enough. They would want to know who has "custody" (no longer really a concept here) which does not apply as we are nowhere near that part of the proceedings. Then they would write to him asking if there is any reason he objects to my having this passport in terms of being able to take the kids anywhere.

What happens though if he says he objects (unlikely), or doesn't answer (very very likely )?

It does seem archaic yes. Have just renewed the kids' UK passports and while they needed his details, they didn't need his signature. And I certainly didn't need his signature when I renewed my British passport Hmm.

Thanks for the link paletmonese.

OP posts:
lalalonglegs · 10/10/2017 08:23

If you have a UK passport and an Italian identity card, do you need an Italian passport? The carta d'identita can be used on most EU flights and the UK one can be used on non-EU; maybe wait to apply for your Italian passport until you are formally divorced?

Original poster
terriblemistake · 10/10/2017 08:32

I don't have an identity card. My Dad suggested my trying to get one but would H's signature also be needed for that?

The signature for the passport is required even when formally divorced, so I would still have to jump through the same hoops.

OP posts:
terriblemistake · 10/10/2017 08:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PerfumeIsAMessage · 10/10/2017 08:35

I was going to say the same as lalalonglegs. I see you also need the spouse's consent for a new carta d'identita' as well though.

Do your children only hold British Citizenship? From your info it would seem so. Is there then any particular reason other than emotive that you want an Italian passport? Your children will have British passports and you won't need his permission for you to have yours. Theoretically he could give you hassle if you want to travel with them but the UK system (courts etc) is a damn sight quicker to negotiate than the Italian one!

PerfumeIsAMessage · 10/10/2017 08:36

X post.

lalalonglegs · 10/10/2017 08:37

Jesus, even after divorce Shock? An identity card is really easy to do if you ever visit the comune where you are registered. No ex- (or even current) spouse's signatures required, you just provide photographs and fill out a very straightforward form. It is issued a few days later. I believe you can apply for one from the Italian consulate too but I don't know the procedure for that.

lalalonglegs · 10/10/2017 08:39

I'm pretty sure that you don't need a spouse's signature for a carta d'identita, Perfume. My husband was in the UK when I got mine in Italy so there was no way he could have provided his...

MaidOfStars · 10/10/2017 08:42

Is there then any particular reason other than emotive that you want an Italian passport?
Many qualifying people are applying for EU passports post-Brexit.

OP, this all sounds archaic. If the sexes were reversed, would he require your signature?

RedHelenB · 10/10/2017 08:43

How would they know you had children though?

PerfumeIsAMessage · 10/10/2017 09:08

It says you do on my local comune website, if there are minors.

" Se ha figli minorenni deve dichiarare di avere l'assenso dell'altro coniuge, altrimenti deve produrre l'atto di assenso del giudice tutelare, assenso non necessario quando il richiedente è titolare esclusivo della potestà sul figlio (ad es. vedovo/a o perchè il figlio è stato riconosciuto solo dal padre o dalla madre)."

(Having spent more time than I ought to in my comune for various documents, I have no doubt whatsoever that this may be a rule, but rules are there to be broken Wink I am still flabberghasted that when we went for dd's carta d'identita' they asked us for nothing. No birth certificate, no documentation to show we were her parents, just the 5 euro and a photo!)

I appreciate lots of people are thinking about Brexit when they consider taking on an EU citizenship- but the OP is already Italian, so the actual doc isn't as crucial as acquiring the citizenship would be iyswim?

allegretto · 10/10/2017 09:17

Perfume - They don't ask you for any documents because they have them all on the computer in theory! OP why do you need an Italian passport? Couldn't you just wait until you are divorced?

Sgtmajormummy · 10/10/2017 09:23

Since November 2016 all new Italian identity cards (credit card size, hologram photo, fingerprint and soon emergency medical info) have been produced exclusively in Rome and sent to the Comuni by security courier.

Any new issue identity cards will be this type and minors NEED to have consent from both parents as they are valid as travel documents. Minors' ID cards also have the names of relatives they are authorised to travel with.

I know this because DD Got hers in November 2016.
I am on her card as mother and we can travel either with DH or without. Anybody else needs a permit issued by the police (questura).This had to be specified in person at the Comune office. We are married.

They've cracked down, PP.

PerfumeIsAMessage · 10/10/2017 09:28

Dd still has her old one, but (theoretically) both our sigs were also needed for that one. (because of the change that meant all Cartas were valido per expatrio unless specified otherwise (other than the other way round like before)

The OP is asking about her own though, not about her children (who don't appear from what she says to be Italian) and it seems she's still going to need her husband's signature if she declares she has children.

PerfumeIsAMessage · 10/10/2017 09:31

I see they are rolling out the new electronic ones before 2018. My area doesn't seem to be covered yet.

No surprises there. See you in about 50 years Grin

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