Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think kids shouldn't talk to teachers like this.

445 replies

onlyindreams · 03/10/2017 17:18

I realise that the majority of kids will show respect to teachers but some of the stuff my dgc tell me is awful. One girl called her teacher a disgusting human being" , another said "you dirty little peado", another one said, when asked not to shout "who do you think you're talking to".

How has it all come to this, i despair, where's the respect gone, please tell me it's not all that bad and not typical of the average 12/13 year old and probably above.

OP posts:
SomewhatIdiosyncratic · 04/10/2017 00:52

I've taught in a diverse variety of schools and it is the support of other staff and SLT that makes or breaks it. I can think of two inner city schools of overlapping catchment in one of the country's poorest performing LAs. One was a joy to do casual supply in, not because it was easy, but because if a student wasn't going to behave in a vaguely appropriate manner, there was an effective system to back you up. The other, I vowed that I would NEVER set foot in again partly due to a student calling me a "fucking twat" without any build up... the management response was a break time detention. In every other school I've worked in, direct verbal abuse like that would get at least an internal exclusion. That level of behaviour management support leaves you with absolutely no resource to deal with routine, petty issues. My 4 days there was longer than many manage. Last a couple of weeks and the job is yours.

My worst type of student is the one that is intelligent but doesn't care about their education. The ones that know that they've got a career lined up in Daddy's business are particularly bad for this. They know where the boundaries lie and are careful about how they tip toe around them. Often naice middle class schools can be tough going, not by force of numbers, but because the staff and behaviour system can be lacking in support as they bury their heads in the sand over the few disruptive students they have.

It's never been the calibre of students that have been the issue for me, but the whole school attitude. My NQT year was tough- low level disruption was rife and when OFSTED raised it as an issue, the head snarled at the assembled staff "plan your lessons better". The real cause was an incredibly bureaucratic, long winded, ineffective behaviour management system that allowed students to drag the consequence out for about a month before it was resolved. One morning my HoD came into my room regarding a complaint that I'd asked a girl to take her coat off in my cold classroom. I pointed out that school policy was that they were not allowed to wear coats in the building and although the room was initially cold, I had survived a PPA in there for an hour before getting the benefit of a class of body heat. That kind of tedious wrangling over clear school policies is very damaging to the profession. More recently there was a saga initiated when I pointed out that a girl was wearing non-uniform trousers, and politely asked her to make it less obvious by untucking her jumper so the very non uniform zips were concealed. Apparently I was picking on her, and meetings were held analysing behaviour data etc.

Most students are lovely, but greater compliance really wouldn't go amiss. Workload has driven me out of teaching for now, not particularly the behaviour management, but much of that increased workload is down to number crunching and covering your own arse as everything comes down to the teacher's input, and none on the students themselves.

There is definitely a more entitled culture throughout the schools I've taught in compared to my own experience of school in the 90s (although I was in the nice classes of a nice school). It is all about rights with very little responsibility.

BoneyBackJefferson · 04/10/2017 06:45

echt

That was all I was after as I hadn't seen a teacher post about working hours.

BoneyBackJefferson · 04/10/2017 06:52

A comment on children standing up, I have had pupils complain because they don't want to stand up in a lesson that requires it, because they have just had PE or because they played/practised for their local team the day before.

And had the parents ring up to complain and back them up.

CosyFires · 04/10/2017 07:03

@lm9004

I can't believe you're trying to justify what you did! You used a punishment that caused physical discomfort and humiliation which as a teacher you're not allowed to do and will probably go against most school policies.

You then back track and say you didn't think it was humilating for the pupil, yet in a previous post you said

'Yes it was all afternoon, she had been warned twice in the morning. She never did it again, better to be humiliated than crack her head open. Do you not think?'

No actually I don't think humiliating children is an appropriate punishment and I don't think most headteachers! It's teachers like you that are part of the problem.

MaisyPops · 04/10/2017 07:13

It's not the norm, but there's a growing group of children who think thry will work/behave on their terms. E.g. i'll pay attention after I've finished talking, i'll.do my homework but if something else better comes up then i'll do that instead, i'll wear the uniform but only in a way that suits me.

These are often the students who get home to call in about why being spoken to/told to be quiet/ directed to work/ getting a detention / beinh told to wait 5 mins until lunch for the toilet etc is some breach of their human rights and a sign that teachers are mean bullies on a power trip.
But then you only have to lool at threads on here to see that some parents actively encourage their spirited little darling to be rude / walk out if they don't like an instruction. They are the same parents who come y11 are furious at the school when their child is underachieving (can't seem to work out thay allowing your child to mess around and be untouchable for 4 years has consequences).

Lm9004 · 04/10/2017 07:23

Cosy fires

Why should a child be allowed to sit down if she cannot sit on her chair properly?

fairyofallthings · 04/10/2017 07:26

*My ds is the kindest sweetest boy who wants to please. He's totally anxious all the time about getting into trouble.

But he has autism.

Sometimes he will totally become overwhelmed and shout and swear. He use to self harm instead.*

Teachers know when a child has autism and can respond appropriately - I doubt many would judge as it's not like the child is just swearing and shouting for the fun of it. A good teacher/TA would notice before the child got overwhelmed in the classroom and already done something about it.

FuckMyUterus · 04/10/2017 07:31

Just to add to the comment above, (and I'll probably get flamed for this) but my son had suspected ASD and I understand this can cause him to meltdown and get angry, but regardless of his level of anger or any issues, if he SWORE at or around a teacher, he'd have his arse verbally handed to him when he got home, it's not acceptable. Too many parents allow their little snowflakes to behave how they like because 'they're autistic' or 'they have ADHD'. Unless these problems (which can occur in varying degrees of severity) are so bad that the child has no grasp on the meanings of the words they're using, then it's unacceptable. Children with behavioural issues still know right from wrong, they still need praising when they do right and still need some form of punishment for doing wrong!

Babipotjam · 04/10/2017 07:32

I work in primary I have been called a c**t by a boy once. He was manage moved eventually afte r many many incidents.

The primary children I work with whilst being lovely think nothing of arguing back or saying things under their breath.

FuckMyUterus · 04/10/2017 07:34

babi is it just me who wonders how the hell a primary age child knows the word cunt?! I doubt very much whether my child has ever heard that word, and doubt much more whether he'd be able to use it in the correct context, and if he did he'd be in for a shit storm!!!

Sugarformyhoney · 04/10/2017 07:41

I’m in and out of schools for work and have to say that though some of the kids can be rude, I have been shocked by the way teachers have spoken to children.
In primary school I have seen teachers yelling at small kids who are already distresssed and the way the teachers address children in high schools shocks me- barking orders, clicking fingers etc

noblegiraffe · 04/10/2017 07:42

Meh, I've taken away chairs from persistently swinging kids. Humiliating? Give me a break. If they are worried about standing out because they are standing/kneeling then why weren't they worried about standing out because their legs were flailing around in the air while I was trying to teach, and being constantly told to stop it? I could send them out of the lesson to stop it but that would seem like overkill when there's an easier solution.

CosyFires · 04/10/2017 07:44

@lm9004

That's not the point I'm making. You did something to try and deliberately humiliate a child, you said so yourself. Unacceptable and against school policy.

Lm9004 · 04/10/2017 07:46

Maisypops

Couldn't agree more I have been told a couple by children to be quiet because they are speaking and that I cannot stop them going to the toilet as mum or dads says so or it is against my human rights. This is all from 9 and 10 year olds.

Lm9004 · 04/10/2017 07:47

A couple of times by children

Lm9004 · 04/10/2017 07:52

Cosy fires

I don't know whether the child felt humiliated or not. I don't see how it is any different to asking a child to stand up while they read from a book during a lesson personally.

sashh · 04/10/2017 07:54

Children learn it from their parents :-( Wrong, but true :-(

Not always. I find some (note some not all) ESOL students are rude because they don't speak English at home and the only English they hear is in the classroom/at school.

This combined with newly arrived students not being put in top sets (best practice, but often put in lower sets) they learn behaviour/English from other children and if they are the nightmare class then they don't have good role models.

Asking how they speak to parents/grandparents can be useful.

But my all time top comment / question from a year 8 students was, "Miss do you take it up the arse?"

Children with behavioural issues still know right from wrong, they still need praising when they do right and still need some form of punishment for doing wrong!

MiaowTheCat · 04/10/2017 07:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ineedaholidaynow · 04/10/2017 07:56

On the subject of chair swinging one of my enduring memories of Primary School is an incident which occurred when my best friend was swinging on her chair. Not quite sure how she did it but instead of falling backwards she fell forwards and hit her nose on the edge of the table. Her nose seemed to literally explode Shock I still remember the look of panic on the teacher's face as she tried to stem the flow.

I used to volunteer at DS's Primary School, hated seeing children swinging on their chairs. There was always the defiant one who refused to listen when you asked them to stop. They used to think it was funny. Luckily there was never a repeat of my best friend's accident. Better to be made to stand up than have that happen.

CosyFires · 04/10/2017 07:56

That's not what you imply here;

She never did it again, better to be humiliated than crack her head open. Do you not think?

You get children to stand up to read from a book? Why? You sound very old-fashioned!

crochetmonkey74 · 04/10/2017 07:56

I'm in a great school, with good behaviour, and it's state. The problem we have is the parents total distrust of school, their child goes home, often misrepresents what has happened and instead of coming in to find out the proper story, the parent immediately believes the most outlandish things about the teacher. They back down and their child gets an earful once they find out the truth but it sours the relationships. Parents of teenagers don't seem to be able to accept that they will lie/ be over dramatic etc. Also, setting detentions now will often mean the parent rings up to object to it. It's often an email or a couple of phone calls over a 30 min detention! All of this has led our teenagers to believe they are always right, are always top of the heap in terms of being listened to etc. We manage this well at my school, but it is draining and devaluing for staff.

FuckMyUterus · 04/10/2017 08:03

cosey I don't think that it needs quite so much input to be honest. I don't agree with lm on the punishment, however that's all it needs. If a teacher did that to my child I'd tell them I didn't like it and could they find a more suitable punishment. No interrogation, no complaints, no arguing etc needed. Just 'I don't like that mrs/miss/mr so and so can you maybe do X next time'. But equally children need to learn that a clear instruction from a teacher is non negotiable, same as a clear instruction from a parent! How are the school going to support you if you have challenges with your parenting if you can't support them in their challenges with their teaching of YOUR child?! Ridiculous!

FuckMyUterus · 04/10/2017 08:06

Teachers almost need to be viewed as you'd view your child's other parent if you were/are split up. They have a right to make decisions about your child and their well being and behaviour and act on those decisions. They are, in effect, your co parent! They look after your child, teach them right from wrong, respect them, love them... And yet they have 'no right' to do this and that? Grin

Lm9004 · 04/10/2017 08:14

Cosy fires.

I would rather a child be humiliated then break her neck: Next you will be saying it is humiliating they have to raise their hand to answer a question, go to to the toilet ect

CosyFires · 04/10/2017 08:21

Next you will be saying it is humiliating they have to raise their hand to answer a question

I have not once said that anything is humiliating, I have pointed out what you have said yourself.

Humiliation is not an acceptable form of punishment, you know this but are trying to justify it with 'well it's better than breaking their necks'. You don't have to humiliate a child to manage their behaviour, if that's the effort you have to resort to then you need a refresher behaviour management course.