Haitch AIBU

[beluga425]

...to want to scream "it's aitch!!!!!!"

FFS

@peachgreen - if you click on the aural pronunciations in the OED, the person pronouncing the words enunciates the r in scarf. While the way the have the pronunciations written might suggest they rhyme, the aural clips they have included don't.

I fully accept that regional variations exist and I'm not doubting you or saying it's impossible, but despite repeating them to myself loads of times, I just can't get them to rhyme in my accent, even when I leave out the r in scarf. I'm more aware of the English accent that puts r's into words where they don't exist so presumed it was that type of accent that could get them to rhyme. I can manage it that way.

To be honest, I just find it interesting. I'm not being critical of different pronunciations or saying anyone is wrong.

Except for those who say aitch, obviously they're wrong 😏

I think I've just realised why I can't get scarf and laugh top rhyme when I drop the r. It's because I pronounce the au in laugh differently to the a in scarf.

Reflection is a great thing 😁

@RoryItsSnowing - "YES. I judge people massively who think saying haitch is correct."

That's the type of arrogance and snobbery that results in the poor reputation the English have in many countries, with their expectation that everything must be English to be correct.

the person pronouncing the words enunciates the r in scarf

...no he doesn't! At least, not to my ear. It's definitely not rhotic. I'm now wondering if the OED website is very clever and regionalises their example pronunciations based on location or something?

I'm more aware of the English accent that puts r's into words where they don't exist

That's the intrusive or linking R (depending on if it's in the middle of a word or between two words) and it's now an accepted part of RP, so very common. In fact it happens in all non-rhotic varieties of the English language so Welsh, Australian, NZ etc etc apart from South African.

@HerSymphonyAndSong I don't think anyone was ever denying that "scarf" and "laugh" don't rhyme in some accents - it was the other way around, people were insisting that they NEVER rhyme. Obviously they don't rhyme in rhotic accents, or in accents with that would put a short "a" in "laugh" (laff) and a long one in "scarf" (scahf).

@peachgreen - that's interesting that you don't hear an r in it and I do! It's really clear to me.

Maybe it is being clever in terms of localisation but the accent is very English and it's still not pronounced as I would pronounce it. Maybe I'm unconsciously hearing the r?

@theymademejoin Maybe! I've just listened again and I can hear a SLIGHTLY different vowel sound, but definitely definitely no R!

Because nobody is allowed a regional accent? You sound appalling.

@peachgreen - by the time we're finished, neither of us will be able to pronounce scarf confidently again😁

I hear a short r, whereas I would use a longer one in my pronunciation.

I am Irish and have always been curious about this. Not being goady but, if you say aitch, what happens to h words like hair and here, do you say air and ere? Also curious about sixth, is it six like mix so sixth like mixth (obviously a made up word). It sounds like sickst when I hear it on the news. I have never noticed it in dramas etc, only the news.

@theymademejoin hahaha I might start calling it a "neck wrap" instead, just to be on the safe side!

Anyway, either way we are agreed that, pronunciation snobbery is the worst and is a symptom of classism and regionalism at its worst.

"I don't think anyone was ever denying that "scarf" and "laugh" don't rhyme in some accents - it was the other way around, people were insisting that they NEVER rhyme. Obviously they don't rhyme in rhotic accents, or in accents with that would put a short "a" in "laugh" (laff) and a long one in "scarf" (scahf)."

I know. I was making the point that it is possible to imagine accents other than your own

(Even some arrogant English people with RP accents like me can imagine and come into contact with other accents!)

@peachgreen - agreed on the snobbery

@HerSymphonyAndSong - sometimes though, it's hard to "hear" the other pronunciation. We have the perfect example above where I hear an r in the aural clips on the OED whereas peachgreen doesn't. I presume we have some form of unconscious cognitive conversion going on where we hear what we expect to hear.

It's bloody well aitch not fucking haitch. Drives me bonkers especially when I worked with a teacher who fucking well said haitch. Grrr!.

It can be either

Get over it

All these people getting so angry about haitch. I would love to hear them speak.

@Isthatwhatdemonsdo - you're getting extremely worked up over what is basically a difference in accent. That can't be good for your blood pressure.

Agree op. It makes me twitch.

It's just an accent thing. Do you get that worked up about all the other regional accents?

Well it is fucking Hiatch in my accent 🤗
Hiatch Hiatch Hiatch Hiatch Hiatch
HIATCH HIATCH HIATCH HIATCH

Watch that blood pressure now!

haitch makes me get annoyed.

It makes no sense that "haitch" starts with H. F, L, M, N, R, S, W, and Y all manage not to start with their letter sound. I have never heard anyone say their alphabet and get to "Feff, Gee".

Ummm, @OkPedro, so you not mean haitch? Or is this another, alternative pronunciation that's being introduced? And if so, where are you from?

I don't really get how it could be accent - unless you're a working class character in Dickens, putting the letter h at the beginning of words where it doesn't actually exist is not an accent thing ("I 'ope as 'ow you've 'ad an Horange" type stuff).

I've always assumed the mistake comes through analogy, as indicated by the poster above who thought that because it refers to the letter that makes the 'h' sound, it must begin with that letter (despite there being no such rule, I can see why that would make sense).

Accents are more about how you do vowel sounds than placing random letters where they don't belong, surely?

YADDDDDDDNBU (multiple ‘definitely’s’)

MrDustyBusty My mum's three quarters Irish, working class, from a deprived bit of Greater Manchester - has always taught me to say 'aitch'. But she and her mum (both parents Irish) were a bit aspirational so maybe dropping this aitch was how they left that all behind.