To think some children are budding psychopaths?

[brasty]

I know being a psychopath does not mean that you will be violent or criminal. It does mean that you do not really feel empathy for anyone else and have a lack of a conscience.

I think rightly children are not labelled as psychopaths, but I do think children who are showing these traits should get proper treatment and their parents should get proper advice and support.

Children showing psychopathic traits are those pre puberty children who are bullies, setting fires, lying routinely, showing no empathy for others, deliberately cruel to animals, and for whom punishment has no impact. A child has to have a number of these issues, many children bully for example, but still show empathy towards people they love.

But at the moment, parents with children showing these traits, receive little help, and are often blamed for causing their child's behavior. There seems to be resistance to seeing this in young children.

I had dealings with a child recently who I'm fairly certain is phsycopathic, he ticked every one of the boxes on the list in the link below. If I remember correctly I read that there is no cure but that if recognised and given therapy before the age of ten there is a chance of improvement, after 10 not so much. I should add this wasn't in a professional context, he was stalking my child and my house (there was much more but that's the jist of it). I've spoken to his mother, he seems to come from a normal family, both parents at home, younger sibling, nothing to suggest abuse. He did claim to be allowed to play wholly inappropriate computer games though, like GTA from a young age (although he is a pathological liar so I can't be sure). I've no idea if there's any connection there but if there is then I suspect we'll be seeing a lot more children displaying worrying behaviour in the very near future as I know a lot of my child's peers are allowed age inappropriate games.
I do think though that in part at least it's biological/genetic like many other mental health disorders.

www.healthyplace.com/personality-disorders/psychopath/psychopathic-children-psychopathic-behavior-in-children/

there are many adults with mh issues that were troubled children they were thought of as troubled and even though some had support that adults thought of them in that way really doesn't help like I said psychopath is such a loaded word it implies the worse of all human actions

Blaming, demonising, diagnosing children whose behavior is communicating their emotional distress at what they have experienced. Maybe we should leave it to the experts to help these children and decipher their behavior. The behaviours mentioned on this thread are symptomatic of many disorders but that would be a bit boring and compassionate and would lack sensationalism so yes let's treat them all like mini Fred wests instead of very vulnerable children who need help. If it is nature and not 100% nurture then why are the overwhelming majority of violent crimes and these type of aggressive and non empathetic behaviours at extreme levels only displayed by men.

There is so much more to raising a child than the abuse or no abuse stance though. Modern life could be a factor too, parents both working long hours, pressuring children to be high achievers, lack of playtime, lack of outdoor freeplay and exploring without being adult led all the time. Plenty of factors could contribute to a child's mental state.

I definitely think nurture overides nature every time. Babies are born with an individual personality but it's up to his carers to nurture the best potential from him, it doesn't just happen by itself.

This makes interesting reading...
www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

I occasionally wonder about this because I know a little girl who, though I don't think she could possibly be called a psycopath, does seem to demonstrate markedly different behaviour from literally every other child I have ever met (and I include the 'naughty' ones or the 'spirited' ones in this).

She is able to manipulate others, all children but also adults. Her mother, for example, is totally manipulated by her to the extent she ignores the evidence of her own eyes and ears ALL THE TIME because her daughter will tell her that X was not Y and that A was not B and that child Z was in fact the one being mean to her and not the other way around.

If there is a child crying/upset, this child is ALWAYS the one walking calmly away from the scene. She is like a homing beacom, a group of kids is just there getting along broadly OK and then this child turns up and within moments, something is said (she is careful not to say things so adults can hear) and a child is in tears.

On the rare occasion she is challenged by her mum, she ends up convincing her that the other child started it and that she did nothing.

I have heard expressions of deliberate and chilling cruelty come out of her mouth; she is the most verblly aggressive child I have ever encountered. It goes way beyond the usual silly 'you're not my friend'. It is almost always entirely gratuitous and out of the blue.

She doesn't seem to care one jot when she reduces the others to tears.

She is upset to hysterics (which can seem extremely put-on) by the smallest slight from another child. Even something that could in no way be taken as an offence can set her off and she will rage for hours.

I tend to look for the best in everyone, especially children, and am rarely disappointed. As I say, even so-called 'naughty' kids can be sweet, charming, funny, loving, just kids really.

This child sets my sense on edge and I do not trust her one jot.

Far too unqualified to say how things will turn out with her. But she's got the potential, I feel, to turn out quite nasty if she doesn't change at some point.

Also maybe consider how you use psychological definitions, a psychopath doesn't necessarily mean an axe wielding murderer. The potential to be one might be there but equally the CEO of a very large aggressive company or a captain of industry/leader of men/prime minister etc could be classified in some cases as psychopaths.

'Psychopath: Lacking conscience and empathy, manipulative and volatile. It's one of the most difficult disorders to spot, it's a spectrum disorder and can only be diagnosed using the 20 item hare psychopathy checklist' (psychology today)

If it is nature and not 100% nurture then why are the overwhelming majority of violent crimes and these type of aggressive and non empathetic behaviours at extreme levels only displayed by men.

In a word? Testosterone.

A significant number of serious offenders have an extra Y chromosome- far above the rates seen in the job prison population. Testosterone, simply, equals aggression. It's more complex than that, but that's it in a nutshell. And that unfortunately is nature (and again not 'bad' in an evolutionary sense always - sometimes being big and aggressive means you survive. )

I agree completely with the rest of your post - children are children and not responsible in the same way adults are. We need early intervention and levels of care that are sadly not available- too many children are failed.

Come off it. If kids are like this they have either witnessed violence or are neglected.
Given the number of parents ignoring their kids in public, while messing about on smart phones, I can only imagine the level of neglect at home.
Just because a child is well dressed and fed doesn't mean they aren't being basically ignored.

Thank you anatidae for your informative post. I did find it a little bit depressing though about testosterone, bugger, no hope for the human race then.

No they are not classsified as psychopaths they might be considered to maybe have psychopathic traits it's not the same thing

Would you really think someone who is referred to as a psychopath is a nice/good person no you would think they are someone you wouldn't want to deal with

I have worked with a several 'psychopaths' who were considered conduct disordered, or to show poor behaviour as kids (I work with offenders, most of whom r not psychopaths!) and pretty much all people diagnosed with psychopathy, once you get to the root of it, have experienced horrendous and terrible abuse as little ones (often very little). Often they won't say though, and it can take a long time to get to early experience.

I hate it when kids are demonised and no one looks to the parents, carers and other adults around.

I also REALLY hate it when people say 'oh I've met x's mum and dad and they are really lovely. X must have had a normal life/parents never abused/he's had a good home life' (so you met them once, and on that basis you assume there was never any abuse and what you are seeing is what they were like everyday when x was a kid??? Yeah right).

And I also hate - 'the siblings are fine, so Xs life must have been great' (for what it's worth, I'm the sibling of someone with huge MH probs. I appear successful, happy etc... etc.... but I know what my sibling went through, and a few (more minor) things I've been through and the repercussions.

I don't know any children like it - I know plenty of 'different' children, I myself am rather 'different' - I have a strong moral code that would stop me doing all sorts of things, but also I don't really feel connected to almost anyone (my children, my partner - the first partner I've ever actually felt connected to in fact).

I do know a couple of adults though. Adults that I can deal with, talk to, work with, but that I wouldn't trust - or rather, I know exactly what I could trust them to do and be.

Both of these adults had abusive childhoods.

Waytootiredtosleep: totally agree. Addressing the cause is too difficult so why don't we slap a daft label on the poor kid.

brasty SS involved and there are some incidents from past (violence/injuries inflicted > no remorse), plus current behaviour. Very damaged child, but can't have therapy yet, because Reasons. Very sad.

Totally agree Waytoo

This was an interesting article:
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/
and a short interview about the above www.npr.org/2017/05/24/529893128/scientists-develop-new-treatment-strategies-for-child-psychopaths

Yes. Several of us have been convinced for a while that a child in my son's class is one. Very disturbing behavior, have reported to school safeguarding lead several times. The child needs help, he isn't getting it. Sad as well as scary.

Gammeldragz what sort of thing is he doing that would make you escalate?

This thread scares me.

My ex, and child's father is a psychopath. He was always abusive towards me but I did t realise the extent what he was to our dc until past their 7th birthday.

Dc changed entirely since contact has stopped. I hope any damage is reversible and that his home is so full of love that he will be fine

Mishfish - don't worry. Yes probably most psychopaths were abused, but most people who are abused do not become psychopaths. Your dc has you and you sound loving and caring, so no doubt he will grow into a loving and caring adult.

I taught a 'budding pyschopath' a few years ago. I even told the behavioural team that I had deep long term concerns for the child and that it would be highly likely that would be in trouble and locked up at a very young age.
Some of the things the child did were:

1. Push a child against the door and continuously put the boot in when the child was down, cowering against it. Once removed, the child then 'got their own back' after not finishing the beating a few days later.
2. Having an altercation whether physical or verbal meant the child would target the other child who they saw as a cause of their anger days later. Even when you THINK you have calmed the child down and the child has forgotten it, that child will then seek out the other child when all other children and adults have forgotten about it.
3. Head locked another child because the child had pushed into their space in a PE line. The child in the headlock went blue.
4. Smashed up a classroom to the extent that the rest of the class had to be evacuated.
5. Threatened to kill other children - to the point of holding an implement in their hand.
6. Brought in a knife ready to stab everyone.
7. Punched, kicked, spat on members of staff, the head teacher and children.
8. Never ONCE shown an ounce of emotion for their actions. In fact their eyes speak the truth. Glares RIGHT THROUGH PEOPLE.
9. Tipping point was when we had to barricade one end of the school for everyone's safety. The child completely trashed a room, broke stuff and was physically violent towards staff.

The 'child' was 6 years old.

Now permenantly excluded.

mishfish I can relate

bangingmyhead It sounds scary that a 6 year old child already has such serious issues. I really hope they got the help they needed, but sadly I doubt it

Mishfish You already said your DC changed once there was no contact. That is good and it sounds like your DC will be fine.