To wonder if feminism fucked us over

[splendidisolation]

Looking around at lots of relationships -

Women got the right to work and make money.

In many cases this seems to mean that they now have the right to pay bills, rents and mortgages as well as doing the lions share of cooking, household chores and childcare whilst feeling under intense pressure to engage in hardcore grooming and be sex goddesses.

In the 60s many women didnt work and let their lady gardens grow free - it was all men really knew or wanted.

Fast forward 50 years and they're expected to have careers and strip it all off.

Im muddling loads of points here but does anyone see what I mean?

My DP is pretty good but I still pull more weight than him. The other evening I got home late and started to get up to make dinner. He was like "dont bother yourself making dinner, lets just make sandwiches".

Sandwiches? Bother? I mean, I appreciate the gesture mate but its like...why not just make fucking dinner yourself?

Sorry for this rambling, ranting and general mish mash of thoughts.

Feel free to muse!

"There are negative aspects to everything-feminism is no different."
I honestly can't think of a single negative aspect to feminism.........

@Pengggwn

No offence but if you're an English teacher and don't know the difference between "rhetorical" and the nuances of the word "rhetoric" we have a serious problem with our educational system.

Nor can I Bertrand. Not a single one.
Feminism hasn't fucked us over. But trying to run it in tandem with outdated mindsets has. Why do so many women on MN complain that they do the lion's share of child rearing and cleaning as well as earning. Juts...don't. Don't do it. Have the conversation with the man. Down tools. hand over babies and leave the house. Let food run out. Then share out duties equally. Work as a team. We get what we put up with.

I have an even better suggestion, don't marry the lazy fuckers. They don't turn into LFs overnight. Of course, it's not as bad to live with one when you're young and childless, and one might think that it's so lovely to 'take care' of a grown man and wait on him hand and foot. And oh well, so he can't even get his socks into the laundry basket, but it's such a tiny detail..But all LFs I know have always been inconsiderate, sexist LFs.

You know this housework imbalance concern seems to be front-and-centre in feminist debate now.

To me it seems like a very simple problem and can be corrected very easily.

We all know how much time we work/travel (to some degree) and how much time we need to sleep. I think everyone should have time to exercise and have a certain measure of time for self improvement/relaxation. Too, people in families need time as a unit to engage in group pursuits.

If you subtract this out of the set number of hours in a week you will begin to see how much time is available for things like cleaning, shopping, gardening, etc.

If you draw up a list of cleaning/shopping/management items, they can easily be divided between household members. A bit of latitude can be built in to address any irregularities that pop up....say if one member is working overtime or has a sprained knee.

I think this is important, and should be considered before making long-term plans with a partner.

All this being said, I do think that we will be seeing continued change in our living arrangements (there was a post a few days ago on living apart). So I think that these issues will become less and less of a problem as this trend continues and we live for longer periods, perhaps permanently, without cohabitation with a partner. Family sizes will continue to decrease, shortening the period of family care.

I also see trends like ready meals and uptake of cleaning services continuing.

splendid *@Pengggwn

No offence but if you're an English teacher and don't know the difference between "rhetorical" and the nuances of the word "rhetoric" we have a serious problem with our educational system.*

I agree. pengwwn has seriously missed the point, and it's worrying if she teaches English.

Don't blame feminism for the fact your DP is a lazy fecker!

And don't blame feminism for the burdens of capitalism (work) either!

While the sharing of household tasks is important I think it can be a red herring.

As some PPs have said it's far easier to think about how much free time we each have.

My OH works 60 hours a week, often on call, so doesn't have a lot of time for much else sometimes.
I work part time, and have loads of time to myself. I do most of the housework, but I have fairly low standards, so have loads of time to myself.
I go to the gym most days, walk, take photographs, creative stuff, time that my OH doesn't have.
Doing all the laundry seems a small price to pay for that.

Well I don't know about you but my lady garden is well and truly grown

The fact that women are expected to remove their body hair in order to be accepted in society is one of the things that shows feminism isn't "finished"

We use rhetoric every time we forma sentence.

Pengggwn you say you are an English teacher. Is it half term?

My kids are in school.

No offence but ... Has that phrase ever been used to preface something that isn't offensive?

How about we stop picking up on one misunderstanding and return to the topic?

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rhetoric

Totally agree op!

However, I think it screwed over men a little too, they used to just go out to work but now expected to be much more hands on at home

they used to just go out to work but now expected to be much more hands on at home

And that's a bad thing because...?

I have not read every single post so sorry if someone’s said this but I think men have been screwed over just as much by feminism. They still work hard outside the home, dealing with long hours, stress and pressure, but now added to that they deal with half the housework, childcare and a wife who is equally exhausted from doing all that. I feel pretty equal to my DH we each do our share and are both fed up with it. Some women may not be there yet, with lazy husbands or whatever but it will come in the next generation or so and I can’t see it being any better for anyone concerned. If housework, for arguments sake, takes 30 hrs a week, and used to be done by the woman with the man working 40 hours outside the home, that’s 70 hours work a week but if you add a job for the woman to that, you have 110 hours work a week for a couple. There’s your problem. Until something is done about the cost of living in this country, we will all, man and woman, continue to struggle like we are.

" I think men have been screwed over just as much by feminism. They still work hard outside the home, dealing with long hours, stress and pressure, but now added to that they deal with half the housework, childcare and a wife who is equally exhausted from doing all that."

They haven't been "screwed over". They've had to start doing what they should have been doing all along.

I think you make very valid points Fianceechickie.

Although I still think that feminism is a woman's issue primarily we mostly have loving relationships with some male.

Although I have no wish for backward steps in women's rights I do think that everyone in some ways lived a more relaxed lifestyle.

I grew up in a time when most mothers did not work, they cared for children, did housework, men worked and relaxed in the evening.

Few families are like that nowadays.
If both partners work full time, everything is squeezed, kids in after school club, housework done in the evenings, all hands to the deck, weekend playing catch up with chores, shopping and organisation.

This is far from ideal.

I don't know what the answer is.

I know how I personally have dealt with things and we have reached a good balance.
But on a societal level it's a mess.

AssassinatedBeauty but no one should be exhausted.

What kind of life is that?

Perhaps each partner should work part time- but in the absence of decent paid part time jobs and career progression within part time careers then financially that's difficult.

No-one deserves to be exhausted, but this is most definitely not the fault of feminism. It is a result of a partial improvement in women's rights in a society that has many many flaws. If men don't like how their lives are when women have equal legal rights then this needs to be addressed by society. It isn't an issue with feminism, or a sign that feminism has "gone too far".

AssassinatedBeauty I agree.

The exhaustion comes with everyone behaving like a traditional man in a man's world and trying to tack family life onto the side.
I question the whole corporate ethos.
Rather than joining in I have opted out - like many other women I know and found other ways of being productive without becoming a cog in a giant testosterone machine .