To not understand the sanctification of Hugh Hefner?

[Yamayo]

So dirty old man dies.
This morning I woke up to dozens of tributes. Why??

He wasn't a visionary or a feminist. He played a huge part in creating the whole culture of casual sexism and misogyny of the world we live in.
And when you read accounts of life in his manor as described by his 'bunnies' it is quite frankly sickening.

Why his death treated with such respect?

Not when you read Gloria Steinem. She worked as an undercover bunny and her experience wasn't exactly positive.

And yes, I think at least some of them actually enjoyed it. And some of them didn't enjoy it so much, but they found it worth it nonetheless.

More outrage here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3045530-Hugh-Hefner-dies-at-91

But 10/10 to the OP for use of the word "sanctification" in the title as that's exactly what it is.

I don't give a shit about his multidimensionality nor his "leg up" to the civil rights movement.

He's a peddler of a magazine that did absolutely nothing whatsoever to advance the rights of women to be seen as equals to men - it did quite the opposite - hence my lack of humble respect for the passing of such a "legend".

OP glad you said this - the second time this year someone died and I thought, really, is that a bad thing?!

My opinion of Gloria Steinem is abysmal. But that's a different matter.

Why does criticism of dirty old men who exploit women always get interpreted as criticism of the women and their "choices"?

Because you need to look at the women too, their choices and what they have to say about it. You simply cannot say “she got her kit off so she was exploited” some women want to do this and enjoy it. That has to be accepted.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread describe those women as pets. I did see a pp suggest the HH treated women as pets. Which is not the same

She said he reduced them to pets and that’s deeply offensive to anyone who was a bunny girl,

When we are unable to criticise a rich, influential person for the way they portray and treat women for the sake of "respecting those women's choices" then I think we will be doing all women a disservice

Stop treating these women like pathetic victims. In this instance the overwhelming Majority were not. They had a right to chose and they did so and many of them loved it And were delighted to do so, You cannot keep saying they were exploited,

Not just Holly, Bluntness. very far from just Holly.

Try reading this one, for instance: madamearcati.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/hugh-hefner-fuck-her-daddy.html?zx=51d020021ee0a6bb

It was their free choice. That's the point.

But I'm not criticising them, Distance. I'm criticising him.

He doesn't come across as particularly honest in the way he treated his girlfriends. Whatever your opinion on the morality of transactional sex/relationships, the understanding should at least be honoured shouldn't it?

She said he reduced them to pets and that’s deeply offensive to anyone who was a bunny girl

That was me.
Well by making them wear a bunny tail and ears he reduced them to pets- surely you can't deny that.

Sorry if it's offensive to bunny girls but that is the reality of what he promoted.

I read this morning that he referred to the women in Playboy as dogs.
Debbie Harry was a Playboy Bunny waitress at a club, not in the magazine.

I just vommed a little after reading banana's post.

"She said he reduced them to pets and that’s deeply offensive to anyone who was a bunny girl"

I don't think it is.
Imagine if I was to say that "x dodgy delivery company reduced their drivers to disposable objects" would I be disrespecting the drivers?

I think he was pretty dirty when he was a young man too.

Bananas "Girlfriend is someone who lives at the Mansion, has the title Official Hef Girlfriend, and receives a weekly cash sum plus other material gains in exchange for participating in mandatory sex nights and obeying certain rules."

wait, what? Is that true?

I read this morning that he referred to the women in Playboy as dogs

He was also disappointed about his lack of success in making bestiality porn.

This is from an article about Linda Lovelace: "early in her porn career, Traynor threatened to kill her if she didn't have sex with a dog on camera, so she did. Later, he also attempted to make her have sex with a dog in front of Hugh Hefner, as allegedly this was a fetish of Hefner's, but by then she had learned how to subtly scare the dog off."

This is a quote from Hefner: "“Oh that was terrific. You know, we’ve tried that several times, tried to get a girl and a dog together, but it has never worked out.”

Distance can you expand on that re GS? Not being goady, I'm genuinely interested.

squishysquirmy One word: Uber

Have forgotten now...which circle of Hell for the utterly debauched?

By the way going back to this comment.

It’s not my lifestyle choice and I’d be horrified if my daughter chose it, but I don’t sit in judgement of others choices.

So you wouldn't want that lifestyle for your daughter but you're happy for other women's daughters to chose it.

And clearly there is judgment if you find the whole thing 'horrifying' as a prospect for your daughter.

He was revolting and the world is now just a tiny bit bettert. That's my tribute.

Agree jux.

Some naivety on display here. He paid women to humiliate and degrade themselves. Don't believe in hell but if I'm wrong on that he's in it.