Old folks dying of,,,,,,old age?

[MrsDeltaB]

Whilst I appreciate there is a general outpouring of someone or the actor of a character that you may have grown up with.

Liz Dawn. Died at 77. Yes. Sad. To her family. But why the outpouring of grief to a person of elder generation who may or may not have simply died of old age?

I can't help but get cross when folks are 'gutted' 'devastated' about the death of an old person dying of, being old! "97 year old died of old age'

This is from the Guidelines for GPs and hospital doctors who certify deaths and write the Medical Cause of Death Certificates - which explains why 'Old Age' or 'Frailty of Old Age' might be seen on an MCCD written by a GP, but not by a hospital doctor:

Old age should only be given as the sole cause of death in very limited circumstances. These are that:

• You have personally cared for the deceased over a long period (years, or many months)

• You have observed a gradual decline in your patient's general health and functioning

• You are not aware of any identifiable disease or injury that contributed to the death

• You are certain that there is no reason that the death should be reported to the coroner

Goodness sake OP, you play the hand you've got and some people holda better hand than others. Life expectancy is an average with a fairly big variability (my GMIL is in late 80s, still independent and driving, but lost her otherwise fit husband young). Unless it's entirely ridiculous and needs challenging let people grieve how the want. Statistics are for populations but grief and even recognition of death is much more individual.

Well because of the 'Glasgow Effect' even those who live in wealthier areas in Glasgow still have a lower life expectancy than other parts of the Uk, especially the South East.

I get people being upset.

What I don't get is the 'shock' and 'Tragedy' sideline, not so much with Liz at 77, or with those known to have been ill for some time, but certainly with celebs older than 85.

I take the view that its certainly a shame, but they had a good innings.

OP, most people today probably don't see 70 as some kind of border into old age/one foot in grave/just waiting to go. It's an age where many people are still working, many more look after their grandchildren on a daily basis (and so contribute to the economy), many make important contributions through volunteering, often in quite physical ways. My dad is 85 and last time I saw him he was up on a scaffold painting the house. At his age, I accept that he may turn frail any time now, but he certainly wasn't anywhere near turning frail at 70.

misskelly - people are becoming less articulate and more inclined to using someone else's personal sadness as fuel for their own drama. Common amongst the z list.

Does anyone watch "How to stay young", on BBC1?

They medically give an age to the person's body and then send them away for three months to follow a different lifestyle.

Some of the people at the start are as much as nearly 30 years older, than their chronological age. So although we would think that they die young at 50+, actually their body is in it's 70's.

They all knock between 5-15 years off themselves in just three months.

In her anti smoking campaigns, Liz and touched on the damage and aging that smoking causes. In past generations if you survived into Adulthood, you generally had a good lifespan. It was our lifestyles that changed that. A lot of my friends Dads died in their late 50's/60. My own Dad died at 60, because of lifestyle factors.

1. You can die of old age even if it has an identifiable specific cause - given that nobody can live past, what, 110, clearly old age makes you die.

2. Even when someone is so old they couldn't live any longer, people are still sad that their lives have ended and they have gone forever. Their presence is missed. It's not a tragedy like the death of a younger person, but it's not just to be shrugged at.

Jesus. I look at my grandparents who are 69, 70, 76 and couldn't think of them dying any time soon

Nor could I, until two of them went out like lightbulbs within a few days of one another. Both in their mid 70s. My grandfather was otherwise fit and healthy, fell asleep on the sofa watching the football and never woke up. Totally unexpected.

Was it a tragedy? No, he died painlessly in his sleep in his own home doing something he enjoyed. His widow (my grandmother) has outlived him by 15 years,but has spent a good portion of those rotting away with Alzheimer's disease and is in her late 80s and is frightened and unhappy woman who is not even aware of her own name. That's the real tragedy in my mind.

If I had a choice of living to 76 and going out like a lightbulb or lingering on til nearly 90 in a state of fear, confusion with advanced Alzheimer's disease. I wouldn't even think about. It.

My DM is 78 and travels to Africa for several weeks at a time, and roughs it when she's there, living with an African family. So no, 77 isn't old these days and people are allowed to be sad.

I think all deaths are a tragedy whatever age. It's ceasing to exist as we know it, not something to be shrugged off. Yes, we're all born to die, but those are just words and it's easy to avoid confronting the reality of what that means. It's tragic and can even be quite a shock, to remember that you aren't going to escape it, nobody is. It's tragic even if they're old and suffering because that individual's not going to exist again.
Meh. I like the comment about the commas.

Once got told by a GP, come to confirm a death of an elderly lady in a care home, that people don't die of old age. Having spent a few years in homes, I disagree. But then I'm not a doctor.
If I'm honest I think anyone who dies who has touched your life will make you sad, and that's normal. I don't necessarily see every death as a tragedy. Also an 'expected' death can still be a shock, because most relatives I know rarely accept the decline of their loved one, it's too hard to face what is going to happen, so you hope, then all of a sudden there is no hope.
FWIW - I don't think 77 is old either, I would say 80+ for it not to be totally unexpected for a person to die, but even then I know a couple of people in their mid 80's who are more like mid 60's!

Carousel has said exactly what I wanted to say. Very true.

Aww, I didn't realise Tony Booth had died. I used to work with his wife Steph, and he used to drop her off every morning at the gate. That's made me sad, no matter what age he was.

I'm curious to know at what age at point of death you would stop being sad.

My mother is 92 and I speak to her regularly (sadly we don't live in the same country), but if she died I'd be heartbroken - obviously it is going to happen, but I enjoy each conversation with her and time spent with her - do visit a lot as well, funds and time allowing.

Oh and what BoysofMelody said. Great post.

Alis I don’t think I agree that 77 is old for this generation of women.

My mother is in her 70s. Her Mother, died 20 years ago in her 90s. My Great Aunties on both sides of the family all lived to their 90s and they were all born before it during the First World War.

I fully expect my Mum to live another twenty years at least. She looks young, walks miles every day, goes dancing once a week and volunteers in the local community every day.

I don't think OP meant sound unfeeling. I sort of understand I think. In this antibiotic, modern medical age, dying is treated as totally unacceptable by a lot of people. Someone ( very sadly ) passes away in their late 90s, and the family want an inquiry etc, when in reality death is inevitable in a human being. We don't last forever. Is that what you meant OP?

Yup ok hands up I may have skew view. My father did die at 41 when I was 7.

And my sibling died at 9. 41 sounds like bloody good innings by comparison if we're going to go down that route.

I don't think 77 is "tragically" young either. But there's a big difference between 77 and 97. I know a few sprightly people in their late seventies still enjoying a good quality of life. I know very few any 97 year olds who can boast the same. I'm sure there may be the odd one, but probably quite few and far between.

I don't the OP meant to sound unfeeling but she's conflating ideas:

That 77 isn't old
That everyone dies
That we shouldn't be sad that a celebrity we don't know has dies - or at least not so much that it's reported

Unfortunately she hasn't worded it well and it is likely to cause upset to some

The death of my 97 year old grandmother was not a surprise but it was very upsetting.

77 isn't old and I find your post in very bad taste.

'm curious to know at what age at point of death you would stop being sad.

The answer is never. We are never ready to lose the ones we love.

I'm half with OP.
imho, 77 is old.
Being old is not a sad or terrible thing & while plenty of people are still in good health at 77, It's still Old.

The important thing to me is Liz Dawn had a great life. I can't be sad about a great life well-lived, even if folk will miss her.

WRT to people I don't personally know, what makes me sad is tragic death: people who die from violence or as children or (worst of all) had a very difficult life while they were alive. I'm not gonna be sad about someone dying who had a great life.

"So many people live linger that old age is bringing a new set of problems: people used to die before geriatric problems showed themselves."

This. Very old age (which I wouldn't class 77 as, tbf) is horrific. Your body is crumbling apart around you and you are trapped inside. Death from old age, when the body just wears out like that, is slow, painful and frankly bloody boring for the person going through it. I watched my darling grandma go through it. My grandad, who died high as a kite on painkillers after a short battle with cancer while otherwise fairly fit, got the better deal.

The OP's phrasing wasn't great but I get her point.
It seems a bit odd to have all this 'so gutted' reaponse when an older person who you don't even know passes away.

It's not that there's nothing sad about death, more it seems a bit peculiar that people get either so invested in the lives of strangers that they are genuinely devestated, or they don't genuinely feel that way it's simply another thing to seem emotional about for show.