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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder who's life would be prioritised, mother or baby?

625 replies

splendidisolation · 26/09/2017 18:05

Just one of those random train of thought questions that popped up in my head.

Imagine this theoretical scenario, a mother is giving birth and the doctor's have to decide whether to save her life or the newborn on its way out.
Ethically, which would they be forced to choose and why?

Imagine the mother's partner or a family member is present. Obviously horrific, but would they be asked to decide? Who makes that decision?

OP posts:
kateandme · 26/09/2017 21:42

Lady wad diognosed terminal in pregnancy.so cancer wad killing her.she decided to carry on with pregnancy barring treatment.on delivery it was agree with her being terminal and to die soon they would choose babies.

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 26/09/2017 21:43

"Leo had better phrase the wording of this referendum to my satisfaction. Or I'm coming after him."

The wording on this will be very important, you will have to join a queue to get your hands on him if he fucks it up!

Tameagobairanois · 26/09/2017 21:43

I agree snipsnipMrBurgess - from the outside it might look like it's all talk and no change but there is a huge shift in the way people think. I remember when nobody would admit to being pro-choice. Now People are openly posting their support for 'repeal the 8th'' all over the place.

In a way, the longer they leave the referendum the better as more of the older generation who just accepted the party line will be gone.

BertrandRussell · 26/09/2017 21:43

So if you go to a Protestant hospital in NI then you can have an abortion? That's great news!

LaurieMarlow · 26/09/2017 21:45

snip so quick to assume what you want to believe. I have fought for change in this country since I moved here first and have fought since I came back. I will always fight. What in my post suggests otherwise? Hmm

As for Northern Ireland, I haven't lived there since 1999, but nothing on earth would make me vote for the main political parties there.

blackteasplease · 26/09/2017 21:46

It is mother.

The mother is the patient until the baby is born (then they both are but obviously the mother or baby choice has then gone)

It was baby a long time ago but not for a long time.

Tameagobairanois · 26/09/2017 21:47

yes, snipsnip, even my Mother in her 70s was threatening him bodilly harm if he words it like this

Do you vote yes to save the innocent little babbies
or no to allow the whores to have sex with no repercussions.

She is less pro-choice than I am but after gagging on the wording of the divorce referendum 24 years ago, I will ask you hold my coat while I go for him if it's worded along those lines.

SnipSnipMrBurgess · 26/09/2017 21:47

True Tameagobairanois ,
And its the younger generation who will bring us into a more progressive society, as long as we show them that change is essential. This fight now wont be remembered by my kids, hopefully it will just be part of their lives that they have access to safe, legal and free abortions as well as non church governed pre and post natal care, which will focus on womens autonomy.

Well thats the dream anyway,.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/09/2017 21:48

The mother,always.

I have one child. As pregnant women do they worry about the worst case scenario and I did talk through with my ex husband what I expected to happen if it was an either or situation (I though NOK would be asked but realise now that is unlikely to be the case). I did not expect our much wanted but unborn baby to be prioritised above me, not at all.

Now I already have a child, I would expect to be prioritised over any subsequent baby I might have and am heartened that this seems to be the case from a medical perspective. I would not half orphan my existing and much loved child for the sake of giving her a sibling.

Tameagobairanois · 26/09/2017 21:49

Oh right, protestant hospitals in NI

There's a marie stopes in Belfast. That's ''ecumenical'' I'm sure.

SandSnakeOfDorne · 26/09/2017 21:53

I had this situation with my DD. They waited to stabilise me at the risk of her life before performing an emergency c section. I wasn't really conscious so couldn't express an opinion. DH wasn't asked. Luckily we both survived, but she was probably iller than she would have been if they'd operated straight away.

AngeloMysterioso · 26/09/2017 21:55

Some might find this interesting reading...

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/17/bearing-children-more-important-than-surviving-pregnancy

BackieJerkhart · 26/09/2017 21:55

So if you go to a Protestant hospital in NI then you can have an abortion? That's great news!

Hmm really not funny.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/09/2017 21:59

I actually read an article today that stated no one knows who actually put that in the constitution, when someone went to look at the statute, they found the file empty

Fascinating - but what about the actual referendum where folk backed this? Was it a genuinely open vote, and if so what could possibly motivate the majority to make such a choice in so recent a time?

Following your mention of it, I'm also aghast to read about the Health Department handing the control of a maternity hospital to the Sisters of Charity - they who ran the magdalene laundries which it seems they've still not honoured their compensation bill for. It seems true that some are protesting, but this wasn't some hole in the corner organisation doing the transfer - it was a 21st century national government

Call me naive, but the whole thing seems beyond incredible Confused

EggysMom · 26/09/2017 22:00

When DS was born by emergency C/S, there were two teams in the operating theatre - one for me, and one standing by for our son once born.

deadringer · 26/09/2017 22:02

What people don't seem to realise is that in Ireland lots of people who are not remotely religious are anti abortion, it seems to be a cultural thing. Presumably it is a lasting consequence of the influence of the Catholic Church but many people, especially the older generation will never, ever vote for it, whatever their faith. I am very uncomfortable with the idea of abortion myself, to me a embryo/foetus is a baby, not a collection of cells, I am still firmly pro choice though. Things are changing and it's only a matter of time before abortion is legal here, the younger generation are fighting for it. For instance there is a march to the Dail planned this Saturday demanding the government to repeal the 8th.

Halfsack · 26/09/2017 22:05

Surely mother.

shhhfastasleep · 26/09/2017 22:07

In answer to the op, until the baby is born it is not legally a person and therefore the mother takes priority. Then when it is born it has the same rights as the mother.
At least that’s how I understand the law.

inniu · 26/09/2017 22:09

The Irish constitution does not prioritise the unborn baby. It recognises it right to life with due regard to the right to life of the mother.

This has been interpreted by the Supreme Court as allowing abortion where necessary to save the mothers life.

The mothers life comes first even in Irish law.
Her health however is a different matter.

ozymandiusking · 26/09/2017 22:10

In the past, I don't know when the the Catholic doctrine changed, but it was preached that the life of the baby was given priority over the Mother. The church can say as much as it wants that this was never so, but it would be lying.
If they say it loud enough and long enough, they will be believed.

nursy1 · 26/09/2017 22:13

The mother based on principles of utilitarianism ( doing the most good you can for the most people) A mother can go on to have other children. A baby without a mother is disadvantaged.

plank · 26/09/2017 22:14

Whichever has the biggest chance of survival. If equal the mother. The birthing partner would not get a say.

caoraich · 26/09/2017 22:16

I'm sure PP will have already said this but realistically it is rarely a decision that is made: where it's such an emergency (e.g. cardiac arrest of mum) that it's literally life or death, there will always be two separate sets of doctors. Obstetrics for mum and paediatrics for the baby. There are paediatricians on call for neonates in hospitals with obstetric units whose job is literally to run to maternity theatres when the emergency page goes out.

Saying that, one of my most terrifying experiences as a junior doctor was when a woman in labour was brought into our rural DGH emergency department. She was moribund with foetal distress. We had neither an obstetrics nor paediatrics team on site but we still split into two separate teams while the helicopter who'd take them to the tertiary centre was scrambled.

Even then I can't imagine "choosing". Usually if mum is really really sick, then so is baby. Saving mum usually involves getting baby out, and obviously that means trying to save baby while doing so.

AtSea1979 · 26/09/2017 22:23

Shocked at Gummy Would you still feel the same if that baby was a week old and his life wasn't as established as yours?

Mittens1969 · 26/09/2017 22:24

@AngeloMysterioso, very good article, thank you for sharing it. I actually don't get why those opposing abortion like to talk about these women. It's generally accepted that abortion should be allowed when the mother's life is in danger. Sadly, this makes me think that it really is just lip service and women's lives are actually not considered worth saving in their own right at all.

And yet, at the time when my DSis had pre-Enclampsia, and we thought we might lose her and the baby, the fact is that the thought of losing my sister was far more awful than that of losing the niece who hadn't been born yet.

Thankfully they were both fine and I love my niece dearly now. But at that stage she wasn't a person I knew and loved like my sister was.

So why is it that the woman's life doesn't matter in her own right? She is the one her family know and love.