To wonder how much breastfeeding matters 14 years on?

[ringle]

Genuine question. I bf both my kids with relatively few problems, mostly because I found it enjoyable.

But looking back it doesn't seem that big a deal.

What's prompted this is a couple of people testifying on another thread that their ongoing efforts to bf drove them to depression.

What are the stats?

It does matter though, doesn't it? Breast fed babies do get a better start. There is a lot of evidence. I don't think we should belittle that because some people are unable to breastfeed.

But this misses the absolute key point here.

Which is that breastfed babies absolutely do get a better start and do better in many ways, but they also as a population have significant advantages over the formula fed population anyway. These are the confounding factors people are talking about. It is poor science to simply attribute the advantages to the breastfeeding, but unfortunately that's all too often what happens. When you look at the best quality research we have, the evidence that does the best job of controlling for confounding factors such as discordant sibling studies and Probit, actually we find that there isn't a great deal of evidence at all for healthy term babies, and the demonstrable benefits are rather minimal. Developing countries are of course a different story, but OP evidently isn't referring to those.

Now people can be forgiven for not being aware of this, because it's certainly not the way a lot of the evidence gets reported. And there are some understandable reasons for this. People are legitimately pissed off with formula companies and do allow this anger to bleed into their analysis, and also the small benefits that have been demonstrated can be significant on a population level. However, the reality is that our best quality evidence does actually tell us there's very little difference for individuals on average, regardless of how ridiculous anyone thinks this is.

(That's also not to say of course that some won't buck the trend. There are any number of dyads where breastfeeding might be significant because of factors specific to them, and not just premies either).

Sorry, that top paragraph was a quote not me.

It's made no difference at all to my 3 very healthy boys.

I do wish people would put as much thought and effort, into how/what they feed their kids and themselves, after the relatively very short milk feeding stage.

Then perhaps we wouldn't have a situation where 1 in 3 children are overweight/obese and over 60% of adults.

Kids with obese parents are 12 times more likely to be overweight than if their parents were a healthy weight.

That's imo a much bigger problem than what milk they were fed when they started life.

And yes, some people will cite FF as a cause of obesity, rather than looking at the huge portion sizes some families are being fed and all the snacks they're eating.

"Breast fed babies do get a better start."

Could we insert a "statistically speaking" or "Almost all" here? There are rare cases where the opposite is true.

It was my decision to insist on breast-feeding a weak and hypotonic baby that made her end up in hospital with malnutrition. To me, the idea that breastfeeding might not be the best solution was so unthinkable that I simply refused to listen to the HVs who tried to tell me that she was losing unhealthy amounts of weight. I was not unable to breastfeed: I had abundant milk and knew a lot about latching on. I could have breastfed a regiment of babies- just not that baby.

Now people can be forgiven for not being aware of this, because it's certainly not the way a lot of the evidence gets reported. And there are some understandable reasons for this. People are legitimately pissed off with formula companies and do allow this anger to bleed into their analysis, and also the small benefits that have been demonstrated can be significant on a population level. However, the reality is that our best quality evidence does actually tell us there's very little difference for individuals on average, regardless of how ridiculous anyone thinks this is.

Absolutely. I think also that many of those reporting the statistics and passing them on (as is the case with statistics in all sorts of different circumstances) actually don't understand their limitations and are passing them on with the best intentions.
It's very difficult to have any faith in statistics about practices across the whole population when subscription to those practices is so heavily divided across, for example, socio-economic groups.

I do wonder, a little, whether all those women being told not to FF actually have access to enough food for themselves to produce enough milk, or whether the pro-BF propaganda is more about ignoring the poverty in such countries

It's hardly propaganda to say it's better for mothers to BF than to give unsafe and inadequate mixtures of formula! If the women were that malnourished they wouldn't have been able to carry the child to term! Is this a serious comment?

Fair point cory.

^^
What bananashit said .
We feed our children for 18 years .

Speaking as someone whose PFB could not breast feed, (and who believed terrible things about my failure as a mother as a result), I'm wondering if there is actually a correlation between those who breastfeed and outcomes, after all?
Maybe those who can't be bothered to put themselves out to breastfeed are also unlikely to do the things that really make a difference (create a stable home, encourage the child to grow up well, serve healthy balanced meals, set regular bedtimes, teach them manners, read to them and encourage them to work at school, show the children love and try to make them respect themselves as well as others etc. etc).

All those things do make a difference to the outcome 14 years later and maybe their is a correlation between those who chose to breast feed and those who are more likely to do all the things listed above?

Some of the statistic do sound a bit 'freakonomics'. Like pp suggested, data seems to show a greater proportion of 'middle class' breastfeed. How much does general upbringing affect the perceived benefits?

I was breastfed and I have tons of allergies and asthma (so unfair, lol) and I've breastfed both my children. I'd say they both had greater immunity whilst breastfed and of course we all have a terribly high IQ heh heh.
Mostly I appreciate the convenience.

I breastfed dc's 1,2,3 and 5. Dc4 was bottle fed because of his cleft palate. I think whatever you do as a mum you will get some people who do that thing where they suck in their breath, shake their heads and tut while saying in a shocked voice about how they would never do that, usually when they haven't had any experience themselves. Also I find if a baby is "good" at something like feeding, sleeping etc some parents are thankful for their good luck and others think it must be because of their genius parenting and feel compelled to give "helpful advice" to parents who are struggling.

For me personally I preferred breastfeeding because it was easier when out and about and in the night. I got so much more sleep when I just had to reach out of bed, pick the baby up and feed. With dc4 I had to go downstairs and make up a bottle each time.

I believe in the benefits of bf, even if at an individual level and 15 years later they are not enormous in their implications.

The bigger issue for me is the handling of the topic by the NHS. I think it's borderline irresponsible to scream 'breast is best' in the face of every new mum and yet do so little to practically support its establishment.

Our culture doesn't lend itself particularly well to breast feeding and we've lost the handed down skills and support network that helped previous generations.

It's no surprise that mums struggle, but we need to think of the psychological implications of setting women up for failure. PND rates are highest among those who wanted to breastfeed and didn't. The NHS needs tp address that fact in particular.

Very true. It's sometimes misreported as bf per se reduces one's risk of PND, but actually it's bf when you wanted to bf. We know from the lived experiences of so many women that the support isn't available to them when they want and need it. This is an important issue in itself. I for one don't want the lack of proof that bf is significant on an individual level to be used as a weapon to make bf support even shitter.

Maybe those who can't be bothered to put themselves out to breastfeed are also unlikely to do the things that really make a difference

I put myself right the fuck out trying to bf and couldn't manage to establish it; however I do do all the other things you mentioned, thank you so very much. Failure to successfully breastfeed your baby does not make you a lazy cunt

I don't know if she totally meant it like that contessa - she said she couldn't breastfeed her first. Perhaps hoping it was an unfortunate turn of phrase

If I have misunderstood, then I apologise for shouting. If I haven't misunderstood, then.....

I meant those who don't do it because they can't be bothered, not those who don't do it for any other reason.

Really? I breastfed both of mine and I fail to believe any of those facts : 'you can tell which reception child has been breastfed' ; they have a higher IQ; a less chance of obesity/ type 2.
really? seriously? Me thinks not.

^A 5 minute Google search has answered your question OP.

'Breastfeeding as an infant can lead to higher IQ, especially if breastfed exclusively and for a longer period of time.
Babies who are breastfed have a lower risk of obesity later in life.
Children and adults who were breastfed have a lower rate of food allergies, asthma, eczema, Celiac Disease, and Type I and Type II diabetes, among others'

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/18/brazil-longer-babies-breastfed-more-achieve-in-life-major-study

www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-eating/breastfeeding/why-breast-is-best/7-ways-breastfed-babies-become-healthier-adults

www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-eating/breastfeeding/why-breast-is-best/7-ways-breastfed-babies-become-healthier-adults

cwsglobal.org/the-short-and-long-term-benefits-of-breastfeeding/

Breastfeed or don't, but I'm kind of tired of people who FF saying it doesn't matter and there is so much pressure to BF when this country has one of the lowest rates of BF in the world^
@washingmatilda

Unfortunately none of this is guaranteed.

My DS2 was EBF until 4 months when I had to put him on a special formula as he had severe food allergies and was constantly reacting to my milk - so EBF didn't prevent allergies. He suffered terrible eczema for 8 months that required lots of hospital treatment. He is very intelligent and I would say way ahead of my other kids on an IQ scale - never sick

DS3 was EBF for 8 months - no allergies - never sick

DD1 never EBF but combination fed for 9 weeks then fully FF - no allergies - never sick

They are 6,8 and 9 now and I don't see that it made any difference. It was convenient at the time and no issues with constipation that I saw (and had with DD) on formula.

Oh yes. And I moved on to mixed feeding with both ds's. And gave up bf'ing sooner rather than later.
But I never felt bad about it.

It's the feeling bad/failure/leading to PND bit that concerns me. That's really Worrying - that's the worst bit. We must stop that, for future women.

I actually think the fact that my kids got a wide variety of fresh fruit and veg, all homemade purees, etc from an early age made more of a difference in terms of their overall health

Babies who are breastfed have a lower risk of obesity later in life.

Not if they're born to obese parents.

In fact they'll be 12 times more likely to grow into obese adults.

Over 60% of UK adults are overweight/obese.

This is why the whole BF/FF argument doesn't really stand up well in today's society.

I breastfed my first two, but by the time I had my third I had been either pregnant or breastfeeding for nearly five years and decided it was time for a rest! All three have grown up into wonderful, intelligent, and caring adults. They all have good degrees, two are qualified teachers, one has started training as a clinical psychologist. Breastfeeding made little difference, and I'm actually closest to the DC I didn't breastfeed!

Sorry, I meant to say it's one of the reasons why.

There are many others that have been mentioned by PPs.

Just wanted to note that oldest children are statistically more likely to be overweight, have allergies, be anxious/people-pleasers and also be more intelligent compared with their younger siblings. So that might factor into the observed results too....

I really ought to do some work instead of hanging around here snapping at people unfairly