Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

818 replies

mnbvcx445566 · 23/09/2017 22:12

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

OP posts:
Thesavsie · 25/09/2017 23:25

The child might have an EHCP or statement of SEN. In which case catchment area is irrelevant. Also may have social medical grounds or they may have done the old rent a place two steps from the school gates and bought themselves a space as lots do.

Theycalledmethewildrose · 25/09/2017 23:27

OP You seem to be getting into obsessive territory regarding someone else's child at this stage. The people you are talking about are obviously well off if they have two properties. You seem so jealous of them, surely your energy would be better spent elsewhere.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 25/09/2017 23:27

Who would have known about ECHP. I don't think that's been mentioned at all in the last 26 pages.

MsPassepartout · 25/09/2017 23:45

I can't believe the number of posters on here who would turn a blind eye. Maybe if your child just misses out on a school place you would understand better.

I agree with this. My child narrowly missed out on a school place at our local school. The only school within walking distance of our house. It was massively stressful for us, and for other local families I knew who also missed out on places. It's stressful enough having to deal with all that when everything's fair and above board. If anyone had gained a place at our local school fraudulently, then I'd have wanted anyone aware of the fraud to have acted and reported it.

People who lie on school admissions forms are stealing from other children. It's not victimless and it can and does have a negative impact on the children who have their school places stolen. Children whose existence seems to be carefully ignored by all those on this thread telling OP to mind her own business.
If a fraudulent parent gets caught out and their child gets the school place taken away, then it's entirely on their own heads.
I have far more sympathy for the child who's place was stolen than I do for the child who's parents are wilfully committing fraud.

arkestra · 25/09/2017 23:49

I think any checks eg against addresses given for early years funding should be done before place is offered, and once a place is taken up , it's a done deal.

No.

If you're a thief, you stay a thief whether you stole the item yesterday or 7 years ago.

People who've stolen school places should still be looking over their shoulders years afterward. In Y6 and your child's place is proved fraudulent? Out they go and all their younger siblings too.

Do that a couple of times and maybe everyone would start playing by the rules.

If you are wealthy enough to rent a house on top of paying for your current dwelling, that doesn't put you above the law that applies to everyone else. The entitlement of some on this thread beggars belief.

Theycalledmethewildrose · 25/09/2017 23:52

People who've stolen school places should still be looking over their shoulders years afterward. In Y6 and your child's place is proved fraudulent? Out they go and all their younger siblings too

Seriously? You are saying that people must continue to live in the same house they were in when their first child started until their last child finishes school. Be realistic.

pizzaparty11 · 25/09/2017 23:52

Don't be ridiculous -it is not theft!

MsPassepartout · 25/09/2017 23:54

What is it if it isn't theft?

A parent has lied to get something that rightfully belongs to another child. How is that not theft?

Maryz · 25/09/2017 23:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PyongyangKipperbang · 25/09/2017 23:57

Don't be ridiculous -it is not theft!

that is exactly what it is.

"(1)A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it"

"Propery" in this case being the school place that righfully belongs to another child.

Vanilly · 25/09/2017 23:58

Why on the first place you need to even think about something like this? Are they any theat to you? Why exactly you think this might be your business? And how you can be sure about them laying etc??

notgivingin789 · 26/09/2017 00:00

Nope sorry. I would never do this.

arkestra · 26/09/2017 00:00

wildrose

Seriously? You are saying that people must continue to live in the same house they were in when their first child started until their last child finishes school. Be realistic.

No, that would be crazy. If your first child is in school legitimately and then you move then sibling rights apply, I'm fine with that.

I'm saying if it turns out your initial application was fraudulent, then that should mean all children admitted on the basis of it should lose their attendance rights.

pizzaparty11 · 26/09/2017 00:07

"Propery" in this case being the school place that righfully belongs to another child
Oh dear you are embarassing yourself!

Theycalledmethewildrose · 26/09/2017 00:08

If your first child is in school legitimately and then you move then sibling rights apply, I'm fine with that.

If a family rents in an area specifically to get into a school and stays there for a year afterwards, then legitimately they are entitled to their place. If a family rents in an area specifically to get into a school and stays there for a year before, then legitimately they are entitled to their place. Nobody can prove they moved or left an area due to that school place alone.

I have heard of schools where they isn't even a sibling policy which logistically means that a family have to be in two or three separate locations at the same time. Now that I find unreasonable.

arkestra · 26/09/2017 00:08

And also I'm saying that if you don't get caught out in a fraudulent application for some years, you will probably get done eventually. For all those renting while owning in London, be aware that a simple Land Registry check will catch you out, and that automated searches will get a lot easier over the next few years.

myrtleWilson · 26/09/2017 00:10

So Pizza lets change theft to fraud - do you still agree its not fraud if a parent lies on admission forms to their benefit - the result of which is defrauding another child from a place they would have otherwise obtained?

arkestra · 26/09/2017 00:10

And wildrose the rule is different in London. If you own a place that is your residence. Any rental is immaterial. That's the situation a lot of people on this thread are talking about (and which I have in mind)

Theycalledmethewildrose · 26/09/2017 00:11

How will they be caught out Arkestra. The parents could rent out their original property and move to a more child friendly location. The parents could be separated or say they are separated. What world do you live in that you think people own only one property and every child has two parents who live together?

PyongyangKipperbang · 26/09/2017 00:26

I'm not you know :)

arkestra · 26/09/2017 00:34

You're dead right wildrose that there will always be ways for sufficiently motivated (and dishonest) people to get around requirements.

But just renting somewhere while still owning another property is increasingly an automatic disqualification for the rental to be counted. Doesn't matter if the owned property is in an uninhabitable state. Doesn't matter if you've rented the owned property out to someone else. Once they prove you were on the deeds, if it's your name on the schools application form, that's it.

Theycalledmethewildrose · 26/09/2017 00:47

But just renting somewhere while still owning another property is increasingly an automatic disqualification for the rental to be counted. Doesn't matter if the owned property is in an uninhabitable state. Doesn't matter if you've rented the owned property out to someone else. Once they prove you were on the deeds, if it's your name on the schools application form, that's it.

This would lead to many many appeals and rightly so.
If your employment relocates you?
If parents separate or say they have separated?
If elderly parents required full time care?
If a move was necessary to be near a hospital?
And the list would continue as long as your arm.

Abbylee · 26/09/2017 03:01

Why???

You are not privy to their life, their private issues, worries, lives.

Do not presume to know. People do not share sensitive information about their children or marriages. Please don't be a busybody or Nosey Parker.

Pay attention to your own home.

arkestra · 26/09/2017 03:04

If, at the time of application, people declare falsely that they don't own another property, then that's when they are in trouble.

If there is some kind of extenuating circumstance, and this is declared upon application, then that is a different story.

If people have a genuine reason for a rental address to be considered while still owning elsewhere, it's up to them to declare the reason when they apply.

If they don't make such a declaration, and it turns out that they do own a property in addition to their declared rental address, it's hard to see what their defence can be. At this point they have made a false declaration. This clear, simple home ownership rule is being successfully enforced today, but in general I don't believe every application with a rental address is currently checked for owned property.

What will become interesting is if it becomes possible for authorities to easily and cheaply search the Land Registry for all applications (including ones made a few years ago), and if they start catching up with people who think they've got away with a false declaration.

I can see authorities going after a few people who made false declarations a couple of years ago just to make a point.

ClearEyesFullHearts · 26/09/2017 03:10

Jesus. Have RTFT.

Maryz thank you for digging up that old Bluntness100 post, but you missed her crucial quote elsewhere:

If it was my kid, yes of course I would report, we all do the best for our own kids, but I certainly would not involve myself in someone else's business when it had no impact on me

I feel this is the crux of the attitude for many who say MYOB on this thread; if it doesn't benefit me, I will stay out of it (and tell myself I'm a good person for doing so--empathy, privacy, kindness, etc).

OP, YANBU to report your concerns to the LA.