to consider reporting this family for having lied to the school?

[mnbvcx445566]

Two parents and one child. They live nowhere near the primary state school they applied for and got into. I think - am pretty sure - they used a different address to the one they live at.
School very sought after. Shall I report them?

I've looked carefully into myself and this is what I think:

1- I am not jealous. If I had the chance to do the same I would not. I would like my child to go to a great state school so they are lucky for that but I would not play the way they did.

2- If I report them the child will have problems at school (? don't quite know what happens in those cases). The parents might have a breakdown or something having to face the backlash. Obviously they have brains and made their choice and would only pay the consequences of their actions but - I - would have precipitated the situation by reporting them. Maybe the system is so fucked anyway that what they did is not that big of a deal. Surely the school should have done 1000 checks before awarding places so there might be something I do not know. What I do know is that they live miles from that school, which has a very very small catchment area.

3- I should report them because if my child did not get into that school 'legally' I would despise people who took advantage of a loophole and took 'my child's place'.

WWYD?

I am a long-time poster/user but I have opened a different account as I do not want to be recognised. (If I do not want to face them and tell them that they are committing an illegal/immoral action does it mean that I am in the wrong thinking of calling the school anonymously?)

If a framework with guidelines & rules exists then it must be followed by everyone. The fact that there are £ penalties means that getting a school place should only be done legitimately. Of course OP does not know all the facts – who does – but that does not mean suspending one’s intuition and suspicions. How do you think Housing Depts get to know of subletting for example? Nor are the ramifications of admission fraud as simplistic as some posters think. If you think this whole thing is a “farce” just think if there were no rules in place ....... it would be handbags at dawn. What criteria would be used then?

There is absolutely nothing mean spirited about bringing this to the attention of the LA, and it is THEY who will investigate. Those on here who say mind your own are dodgy themselves.

Do you know this family well? Does the child have any medical issues that require assistance? If so they'll be placed near the top of the list of their chosen school - I've been looking into this as my son has a condition that may still require emergency treatment and testing when he's older and I can in theory therefore pick a school that's most convenient (e.g. One closer to my work if I need to attend urgently, same school as any other children etc etc)

Have you ever done anything morally questionable, OP?

Actually, this is why I think everyone should have to go to their nearest primary school, as in America. It would stop all this behaviour, and hopefully, get parents to pull together to improve their local school.

But that's basically what we have in the UK, albeit adjusted for siblings, looked after children and SEN (which I don't think are things people generally object to). The same renting near school 'trick', and claiming that you lived there, and were therefore closer to school, could presumably be pulled in the US.

As for the 'system', I challenge anyone to come up with something better... only in a fantasy land would your nearest school always be both 'outstanding' and right for your child.

Not as bad as the person who set up a fake email account in the name of a neighbour, then said they were moving, in order to get the next available place, but wrong nevertheless.

Not sure I understand how this got them a place?

Bluntness but you are ok with the fact that as a direct consequence of that child attending the school fraudulently, there is another child living maybe 200m away from the school who has to pass it daily on their hour-long trek to another school across town, unable to do playdates, and forced to attend breakfast and after-school club because they have a sibling at the catchment school and the parent can't be in two places at once?

I'd think it was shit for the other kid, I would understand why the fibbing parents did it for their kid, and I would not involve myself in the situation to the extent that I reported it and tried to get the kid chucked out, no. I wouldn't do this. I'm shocked anyone would, and on no more info than they don't live in catchment area.

I'd report it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

They do have info though

They have ruled out all criteria above distance.

Not a LAC
No SN
No siblings

If school is usually over subscribed and people outside a certain area don't usually get in ( this is available info online btw) it's reasonable to question how they got in

I'm shocked anyone would, and on no more info than they don't live in catchment area.

You keep saying this and ignoring the fact that if they got the place legitimately, there will be no kid being chucked out. And if the evidence does indeed show it was fraud then the only people to be blamed for the kids losing his place are the parents. You seem o be hinking ha an accusaion is all i akes for a child o lose heir place!

If the place was given due to special circumstances that the OP isnt aware of then the parents wouldnt even know that they had been reported.

I dont know why you are so against doing this when the only time the child would be affected is if its parents have indeed lied to gain the place.

And as already pointed out if the child is locked out it's because of fraud.

If it's legit there's no problem

And besides had they not been fraudulent the journey to the school they got would t be so bad would it.

It would only be difficult now because there might not he any nearby spaces

And again that's all on the parents. No one else.

And if they did it before they can do it again and next time it could be your dc on three buses travelling hours a day to a secondary school miles away despite you working 70 hours a week to pay for your catchment house

I'd think it was shit for the other kid, I would understand why the fibbing parents did it for their kid, and I would not involve myself in the situation to the extent that I reported it and tried to get the kid chucked out, no. I wouldn't do this. I'm shocked anyone would, and on no more info than they don't live in catchment area.*

Well I would if I was a mother in the catchment area whose child lost out on a place
Because they lied.

So me, buses to school out of catchment, childcare arrangements in order to make their life easier.

No.

To those of you who are saying that I should be able to check online how they have decided for the intake of this school/area for September 2017 (am I getting this right?), would you show me an example of this so that I know how to do it myself?
Obviously if it shows that all children live within 200 meters or even 2 miles I am sorted.

There are many ways the system could be improved. The fact there are different types of school with different admissions criteria based on faith, sex, test scores etc all mixed up is bad enough, andthen black spots where instead of rejigging things so everyone has to travel a reasonable distance some people get allocated somewhere miles away. And then there's the sibling rule which in most cases extends beyond what might be considered proportionate that results in people being driven around. All this could be improved. Some councils do do things differently - Hackney has a complicated system of banding to try and balance things up a bit so there aren't uber desirable and sink schools pitted against each other and house prices don't rocket to make it selection by house price. It's not universally popular though and many such systems aren't introduced because ultimately those whose votes the council are courting don't actually want them.

None of that justifies actually cheating though.

And if the evidence does indeed show it was fraud then the only people to be blamed for the kids losing his place are the parents. You seem o be hinking ha an accusaion is all i akes for a child o lose heir place!

Eh no clearly I dont think that, I'm not an idiot, but I do know if she reports and the kid is kicked out it's a direct consequence of her reporting. If she doesn't report the kid might never be found out. Pretending it's not a direct consequence is daft.

And I have some empathy for parents who are at the mercy of a post code lottery to determine the quality of their child's education and I understand why someone would do it. I also feel sympathy for the child who didn't get a place. As such, no I would not get involved in this in any way shape nor form and I really am appalled there is such morally superior people out there who would involve themselves here.

I hope you've all stuck to the rules in your life in every little thing, even when it's to the detriment of your own child.

OP - on our council website we have "how places were allocated" and then there is a document that shows the "cut-off distance of last place awarded" - so for each year it shows that, where the distance criteria was applied, what the furthest distance someone lived and still got allocated a place on that criterion
.

I still think ultimately it's a question of weighing up how bad you'd feel for reporting against how you'd feel if you missed out on a place because of someone else's deceit. It's a no win situation for the child who's missed out and the child who got in but might have to leave because of something they didn't do.
Likewise how do parents who have been caught face telling their child that they've lost their place and more importantly why!

I would say that if someone lives outside the catchment area, that alone is not cause to report suspicion to the council.
If you are all new parents in the playground and happen to just chat to someone who turns out not to live in catchment, on the basis of that one piece of info, a report wouldn't be warranted.

People report when they know more. They know that the person they have suspicions about has either rented in catchment and then moved back to a house they had all along out of catchment, or who has used a catchment address to get the place, but never lived there. These are the triggers for reporting.

And yes to the fact that the Council can carry out some checks without the person who has been reported as suspicious even knowing. They can access council tax payments for example. If queries still remain the council simply writes to the person asking for certain paperwork. They don't say that a complaint has been raised ever.
They may ask for evidence of dates of moving, of utility bills, evidence of selling or letting previous properties.

If the eidence is sent in, they will probably ask again and they may go round and visit different addresses and follow up with other agencies.

These kind of queries can be sent through from the council after places have been allocated and before the school year begins or after the school year begins. Sometimes the council themselves raise such queries late, but often they are due to queries raised by others. All queries and requests for evidence are put in a non-confrontational way and a non-judgmental way - simply requests for information. Anyone with nothing to hide would not be affronted or feel victimised v
By the approach taken. If all is well, the council would simply thank them for the evidence. End of. Only those who have got places fraudulently would start to worry.

There is no point at all in having an admissions policy if it isn't goi g to be enforced. School places are a highly emotive issue which people get upset about. It is vital that the rules are seen to be fully applied to everyone and that no-one is seen to get away with cheating.

I would suggest that those who say 'mind your own business' are those who generally have a disrespect for authority. They wouldn't want to inform the authorities about all kinds of iffy and potentially illegal actions. They also have a lack of respect for rules in general and perhaps are those who if given the chance to break the rules themselves, would do so because they have no respect for the rules or rights of others - it is every man for himself. Dare I say that such people are also likely to be those who don't support school discipline or absence policies too, but are also very quick to complain when things don't suit their kids.

On our council website you would go to allocations then choose from the links on how places were allocated second round allocations etc

Just keep looking til you find the one. There will be a few look through

Yes, absolutely do report.

Why would one not report?

If they haven't done anything wrong nothing will happen to them.

If they have lied then their fraud has denied a local child a place that is rightfully theirs.

I am going through school applications right now and I'm surrounded by people openly chatting about lying their arses off about where they live, while I'm playing it straight from a not-very-good location. It pisses me off.

There is more than one school around me where so any people have lied about a rental address being their true one - then putting siblings through on top - that the catchment areas now exclude most of the genuine locals.

And the spurious incomers that I know of are richer than the locals BTW if anyone's looking for an excuse on that basis.

I would suggest that those who say 'mind your own business' are those who generally have a disrespect for authority. They wouldn't want to inform the authorities about all kinds of iffy and potentially illegal actions. They also have a lack of respect for rules in general and perhaps are those who if given the chance to break the rules themselves, would do so because they have no respect for the rules or rights of others - it is every man for himself. Dare I say that such people are also likely to be those who don't support school discipline or absence policies too, but are also very quick to complain when things don't suit their kids

Bollocks. I wouldn't report because I have empathy for the parent who wanted to get a decent education for their kid and I say that as someone who privately educated her child through both junior and senior school

I could also be deeply insulting and say I suggest those who would report and the sort of hyancinth bouquet curtain twitchers who were the unpopular kid at school trying to force their way into everyone's business and then running to tell tales so they could get the kid into trouble based on nothing more than some school ground gossip.

Not very pleasant to be so judgemental is it?

But your not getting a kid into trouble based on gossip.

There's no trouble if it is just gossip

I wish kids could go to their local school. How good would that be!!!!!

I have the misfortune of being in a postcode black spot. Our catchment school is crap. It's a mile away from home so outwith local community.

The local school is 250 yds from our house so about a 7 minute walk. But we live too far away and I'm sure a lot of people have cheated to get into that school.

We also live far away from many other schools so have very little choice.

My DD is at a good school just not catchment or any we wanted or one anyone else wants lol.

We are not poor. We could have rented and cheated the system but that just didn't feel right. I think if other parents thought the same we would have got a place.

I am happy with the school DD is at. But I just don't think it's fair that she can't walk to school. But hey she doesn't count as she's a 1st born

OP, this may vary from area to area, but if I wanted to check whether my local schools are oversubscribed, I would go to the council school admissions website.
My council have a Primary and Secondary schools admissions guide on their website that can be downloaded. This has tables in the back of it, which list every school in the county. For each school, the table gives the PAN (published admission number), the total number of applicants, the total number of places offered, and, if the number of applicants exceeded the PAN, the basis on which the last place was offered (e.g. "1.1 miles", "late applicant", etc).

I looked at the map of the catchment area. I am serious: there are 20 horizontal streets and 5 vertical street. If you walked the horizontal roads it would take 20 minutes at the most to walk from one side to the other of the catchment area. This is a really sought after school, no way they had to go 3 miles away from it to find people to fill up spaces.

Just do what you did on page 2 OP.